Itinerant Air-Cooled

Can't prove it here, but when Cameron resigned after the Brexit referendum , I went on record as saying this would never happen. My reasoning was they would not be able to put a deal together.

I think that view is getting more validation.

Cameron is the most irresponsible and despicable of politicians. Calling two referendums to solve internal party political conflicts and arrogantly assuming he'd win the both. The Scots did not vote for independence in the first referendum, but then suffered when the English did vote to leave the EU in the second. Cameron then resigning was a total abdication of responsibility. He created the problem then walked.

Losing the vote for a deal is no guarantee that the UK will not leave the EU. It just means that May's deal has failed. Personally I hope there will be another referendum but I have no idea what the choices in that referendum will be.

Gonna be munching on this popcorn for a while. My gut is that they will push out 1 year. What happens after that, who knows?

An interesting twist, Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica were involved in stirring up the British populace for a little "populist revolt" without thinking it through. Very similar to the Trump Event.

We may be in the midst of a darker deeper phenomenon of targeted manipulation. And we absolutely must inform ourselves across several news platforms, get involved, participate actively, and mygodplease we need to hold ourselves and our leaders to a higher level of spirited and rigorous discussion. We must move past the "libtard/redtrash" debate.

I actually do hope that Britain re-does the Brexit vote. It will NOT undermine the will of the people and the foundation of lawful participation when it is proved that the original vote was not fully explicated and honestly debated. By the way, "ordah, ordah, ORRRRDAHHHH."
Colin

TrollFromDownBelow wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:07 pm

Gonna be munching on this popcorn for a while. My gut is that they will push out 1 year. What happens after that, who knows?

Good call, I think.

Abscate wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:23 am

TrollFromDownBelow wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:07 pm

Gonna be munching on this popcorn for a while. My gut is that they will push out 1 year. What happens after that, who knows?

Good call, I think.

I think we are inexorably moving towards a delay ...
Colin

yup...i didn't really think they were going to go for a no deal break-out.

TrollFromDownBelow wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:49 pm

yup...i didn't really think they were going to go for a no deal break-out.

Fascinating to see "forces" at work. The whole notion of "democracy" is I think at risk. The fatal flaw in the French and American revolutions is that democracy has become the tail that wags the dog.

Of course giving voice to people was a critical step. But our Founding Fathers warned us to remain informed. We are no longer informed.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:03 am

Of course giving voice to people was a critical step. But our Founding Fathers warned us to remain informed. We are no longer informed.
Colin

Good point .... before the interweb we received news mostly from professional journalists. Not that there wasn't bias then, but at least 90% of the info people consumed was at least put through the filter of professional journalism. Now days, any body can post or blog something, and if gets enough "likes" it goes viral. Not based upon the 'truthness' but based upon emotion.

It is a bit ironic ... at a time when critical thinking is the most needed, conveniences such as pumping a question into google and getting an answer right away, has made people less dependent upon their critical thinking skills. Why study up on something, and learn all of the angles when you can get an answer immediately?

Point is, now more than ever, it requires critical thinking to wade through all of the information presented to us, and yet, as the population as a whole, we are exercising our ability to think critically less and less .

It should be more openly accepted that we are in the midst of an information war with Russia.

This is an interesting read

Is Brexit dead? It's looking more and more like it's "undead" ... neither dead nor alive, inhabiting some zombie space somewhere in between.

As near as I can figure, the EU wants to put Britain's feet to the fire, saying "you're in or you're out. Can't be both." They're insisting on a coherent exit plan for Britain, which Britain seems incapable of formulating, or at least passing through Parliament. Now Britain wants more time to sort this thing out. Fine, says the EU. We'll grant you a few more weeks IF you can use it to formulate a workable plan. Meanwhile, Britain's population has been having a bit of buyer's remorse, and it's suggested that if there were another popular vote today, Brexit would fail.

One of the issue's pivotal points concerns the border between Eire and Northern Ireland. The open border was a linchpin in the agreement made between the two countries to end that era known as the Troubles. There's a fear that if the border is closed, many say, the troubles will be back. As it happened, Northern Ireland voted agains Brexit, for this very reason, and it is entirely possible that if Brexit actually goes through, it will attempt to secede from the Commonwealth. And if that happens, Scotland may follow.

In short, this thing with Brexit is far from settled.

The real problem with Northern Ireland is the majority of Unionists that want there to be no substantive legislative difference to the UK - lest it ends up joining and uniting the island of Ireland. This is the essence of the troubles. There is little danger that they (the Unionist majority) will want to leave the country that is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Commonwealth has a different meaning in this context - more a loose fraternity of former territories of the British Empire. There's a lot being played out in this political dismembering of the Union.

I feel like I've become very pedantic recently..

tommu wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:16 pm

I feel like I've become very pedantic recently..

As we get older, it appears more "obvious", that this almost active refusal to work things out according to common sense is because of those un-evolved souls who just want to hang on to their personal or tribal advantages of the status quo.. We can see the self-interests clog the works with their sometimes sophisticated obfuscations and in today's political world, outright lies.

And you try to impart some sort of framework to the maddening and confusing twists and turns of our "social evolution" and it looks pedantic. I am becoming "elitist". I think the citizens of our world democracies have deteriorated below the required minimum level of informed participation and thorough education. We are ripe for the picking off. We are ready for Fascism 2019.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:09 pm

tommu wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:16 pm

I feel like I've become very pedantic recently..

As we get older, it appears more "obvious", that this almost active refusal to work things out according to common sense is because of those un-evolved souls who just want to hang on to their personal or tribal advantages of the status quo.. We can see the self-interests clog the works with their sometimes sophisticated obfuscations and in today's political world, outright lies.

There's an interesting article in the current New Yorker magazine about the people behind Brexit. It seems that there's evidence of them colluding with Russia for the purpose of maximizing their profits. What Russia is getting out of this is the destabilization of Europe, increasing their influence in that sphere. They are as adept at turning public sentiment through fear, tribalism, and perceived grievances as the Trump people were in getting their guy elected, and for the same reasons; everything is working to Russia's advantage and everybody else's disadvantage.

It's an interesting read. Check it out if you can.

JLT wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:39 pm

There's an interesting article in the current New Yorker magazine about the people behind Brexit. It seems that there's evidence of them colluding with Russia for the purpose of maximizing their profits. What Russia is getting out of this is the destabilization of Europe, increasing their influence in that sphere. They are as adept at turning public sentiment through fear, tribalism, and perceived grievances as the Trump people were in getting their guy elected, and for the same reasons; everything is working to Russia's advantage and everybody else's disadvantage.

It's an interesting read. Check it out if you can.

We could start with Steven Bannon and Cambridge Analytica.
Colin