We Who Do Not Learn ...

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hippiewannabe
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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:21 pm

tommu wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:47 pm
hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:31 am
Oh brother. Did you read the quote? It was clearly a joke. I don't think anyone believes he will try
Just what would they have said about Obama had he made that "joke" They'd have their followers out in streets with pitchforks!. :cyclopsani:

As to anyone not believing he'd try. Well.. we have a little more idea about his capabilities now don't we. :king:
Well, we all know that Obama was very thoughtful and calculated, choosing his words carefully. Trump, not so much.
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tommu
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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by tommu » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 pm

I believe he used to teach Constitutional law too? A little more qualified perhaps?

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:59 pm

tommu wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 pm
I believe he used to teach Constitutional law too? A little more qualified perhaps?
Well, I'll at least allow him in to Jimmy Carter club of good man, bad policy.


edit: and by extension, I guess we have to start a new Trump club of bad man, good policy.
Truth is like poetry.
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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by tommu » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:20 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:59 pm
tommu wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 pm
I believe he used to teach Constitutional law too? A little more qualified perhaps?
Well, I'll at least allow him in to Jimmy Carter club of good man, bad policy.


edit: and by extension, I guess we have to start a new Trump club of bad man, good policy.
I think he did very well after inheriting a rather sticky wicket from Bush.
What policies do you think have been good for his people so far?

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm

tommu wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:20 pm
hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:59 pm
tommu wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 pm
I believe he used to teach Constitutional law too? A little more qualified perhaps?
Well, I'll at least allow him in to Jimmy Carter club of good man, bad policy.


edit: and by extension, I guess we have to start a new Trump club of bad man, good policy.
I think he did very well after inheriting a rather sticky wicket from Bush.
What policies do you think have been good for his people so far?
Someone has specifically said he cares about them, and has actually followed through on his campaign promises.

Naming and shaming companies that moved production outside the US definitely slowed that momentum. Praising those that expanded or kept jobs here led to measurable increases in employment.

The corporate tax cut has absolutely stopped the tax inversion scam that moved profits, and jobs, overseas.

The employee bonuses that companies are attributing to the tax cuts could be cynically viewed as political payback, but the people that get them can nonetheless spend the money. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/26/us-comp ... x-cut.html

The flood of illegal immigration has slowed.

The regulatory war on business has stopped. Companies have a better idea of what the future regulatory environment will be, so are more comfortable hiring and investing.

We'll see what the tariffs on steel and aluminum ultimately bring, but the unions and blue collar workers are ecstatic. Despite all their threats and bombast, I think the rest of the world will back down. They know they have gotten away with murder, and this is simply the first time we've pushed back.

When they were faced with the possibility of ending Obamacare, and figured out Obamacare was actually good for them, the working class stepped back. And Trump and the Republicans heard them, and stepped back.

If Democrats aren't careful, they'll let their hatred blind them to the fact that some of these policies are actually good for the people they claim to represent.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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Amskeptic
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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:14 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:21 am

the laws are pretty clear that the executive branch has a lot of sway over immigration policy.
A fact which Democrats were fine with under Obama, but now fight on every front.
Sorry. We all remember how republicans scolded Obama for being a little dictator/king when he turned to executive orders to try to get around an unusually obstructionist Congress. Democrats were on-board with Obama's efforts because he was actually trying to execute the will of the people who overwhelmingly agreed with him that a path to citizenship was necessary for all these kids. As of today, 80% of all Americans still agree.
Trump, however, made only a personal spiteful decision to end it. And Democrats have (as usual) made perfectly observable efforts to compromise and work with Trump on a solution that Trump shut down arbitrarily the day after he said "if there is agreement in Congress, I'll sign it."
hippiewannabe wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:21 am
Another big one is cancelling the Keystone Pipeline by diktat, even though it is similar to a dozen other pipelines, and should have been permitted under the laws as written. What was especially galling about that one is it was bad policy, and just a sop to his base.
Instead of bringing in oil from an ally by the most efficient and environmentally responsible manner, it would have sent that oil to the coast to be loaded on a CO2 and smog belching tanker across the ocean to Asia, and replaced it with oil brought in by another CO2 and smog belching tanker across another ocean.
Again, the majority of Americans were against Keystone, and it made lousy sense for us to take the environmental risk of piping it down to Texas where it was just being exported anyways. You know that right? It was just being exported. It was just being exported. What happened on November 17th, 2017? Yeah, a spill. A 210,000 gallon leak in South Dakota. That's far away from Michigan suburbia, but the results were real for area farmers! ANd Nebraska farmers started kicking up a protest pretty quick that they didn't want any pipeline crossing their farmland!

And most intelligent Americans realize that we really do have transition from oil (especially tar sand oil!) so don't keep investing in huge oil infrastructure!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by tommu » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:24 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:59 pm
The corporate tax cut has absolutely stopped the tax inversion scam that moved profits, and jobs, overseas.
Ignoring everything else because I want to go to the garage where things should make sense - I do not think this is true. Can you back up your absolute belief of this with some evidence please?

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm

The corporate tax cut has absolutely stopped the tax inversion scam that moved profits, and jobs, overseas.
Really? We are 58 days into the tax cut, and you have evidence that the corporate tax cut has absolutely stopped the tax inversion scam?

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm
The flood of illegal immigration has slowed.
CBP tallied 415,816 apprehensions in fiscal year 2016.
Border Patrol agents recorded 310,531 apprehensions nationwide in 2017,
the lowest since the 302,517 apprehensions in 1971. Why so low? Because fewer people are trying to cross the border, that's why.

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm
The regulatory war on business has stopped. Companies have a better idea of what the future regulatory environment will be, so are more comfortable hiring and investing.
No they don't. Corporations are watching the political landscape like everybody else. November 6th, 2018 is going to be an interesting adjustment. Many companies appreciate regulations as keeping the playing field orderly and level.

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm
We'll see what the tariffs on steel and aluminum ultimately bring, but the unions and blue collar workers are ecstatic.
WHAT unions are "ecstatic"? What blue collar workers are "ecstatic"?
They won't be when they see prices going up for hard goods that use aluminum and steel. They won't be ecstatic when Canada and the European Union slap tariffs on blue jeans, Harley-Davidsons, and Kentucky Bourbon for starters.

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm
Despite all their threats and bombast, I think the rest of the world will back down. They know they have gotten away with murder, and this is simply the first time we've pushed back.
We have been exploiting the rest of the world for raw respources and labor for over a half century, and you call it them getting away with murder? You think they are going to back down?

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm
If Democrats aren't careful, they'll let their hatred blind them to the fact that some of these policies are actually good for the people they claim to represent.
Don't be so sure that it is "blind" hatred. Many Democrats are waiting for the red state Trump supporters to wake up to the fact that they have been had. We'll talk on November 7th.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:28 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:14 pm
Again, the majority of Americans were against Keystone
Depends on who you ask, when you ask, and how you ask the question.
The 1,179-mile Canada-to-Texas pipeline is backed by 57% of the 1,011 Americans surveyed on Dec. 18-21. Just 28% oppose it, while 15% say they are unsure.
https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/politics ... index.html

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:14 pm
... and it made lousy sense for us to take the environmental risk of piping it down to Texas where it was just being exported anyways. You know that right? It was just being exported. It was just being exported.
That is wrong, that is wrong. Charitably, it's an accidentally disingenuous reading of the data caused by a preconceived assumption. More likely, it's a deliberate lie meant to ensnare the naive. Most of that oil will not be exported, it will be refined in American refineries, creating jobs in the process of adding value to a raw material. Some of the resulting product will be exported, some will be used domestically.
Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:14 pm
What happened on November 17th, 2017? Yeah, a spill. A 210,000 gallon leak in South Dakota. That's far away from Michigan suburbia, but the results were real for area farmers!
Accidents happen. If you do a Google search, you see hysteria for two days, and then nothing. Because it wasn't just far away from Michigan suburbia, it was far away from the next door neighbor. They cleaned it up, and there was no lasting harm.
Image
http://journalstar.com/news/state-and-r ... 5eb32.html
Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:14 pm
And most intelligent Americans realize that we really do have transition from oil (especially tar sand oil!) so don't keep investing in huge oil infrastructure!
It’s going to happen, over the next several decades. In the meantime, we still need to supply fuel to the over 1 Billion motor vehicles on the road, in the most cost effective and environmentally responsible manner possible.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:58 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm
hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm

The corporate tax cut has absolutely stopped the tax inversion scam that moved profits, and jobs, overseas.
Really? We are 58 days into the tax cut, and you have evidence that the corporate tax cut has absolutely stopped the tax inversion scam.
That's two months with no inversions, vs. a couple a month over the last few years. I guess we should give it a few more months before declaring victory, but the mathematics has changed such that it is not worth the effort anymore.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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hippiewannabe
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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:04 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm
hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm

The flood of illegal immigration has slowed.
CBP tallied 415,816 apprehensions in fiscal year 2016.
Border Patrol agents recorded 310,531 apprehensions nationwide in 2017,
the lowest since the 302,517 apprehensions in 1971. Why so low? Because fewer people are trying to cross the border, that's why.
Exactly.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm
WHAT unions are "ecstatic"? What blue collar workers are "ecstatic"?
These ones.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/union ... le/2650558

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1GE2U1
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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hippiewannabe
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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:12 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm

We have been exploiting the rest of the world for raw resources and labor for over a half century, and you call it them getting away with murder? You think they are going to back down?
Ohferchrissakes. We aren't talking about African zinc mines and sugar plantations here, we're talking about Asian and European manufacturers.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:50 am

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:12 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm

We have been exploiting the rest of the world for raw resources and labor for over a half century, and you call it them getting away with murder? You think they are going to back down?
Ohferchrissakes. We aren't talking about African zinc mines and sugar plantations here, we're talking about Asian and European manufacturers.
"Getting away with murder".
Ohferchrissakes. :cyclopsani:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: We Who Do Not Learn ...

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:52 am

hippiewannabe wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm
WHAT unions are "ecstatic"? What blue collar workers are "ecstatic"?
These ones.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/union ... le/2650558

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1GE2U1
Duuuuuuuuly noted. :flower:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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