Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

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Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:54 am

I am sorry to read this. I do not understand how we came to hate unions so much . . .

CBS News
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. - Workers at a Volkswagen factory in Tennessee have voted against union representation, a devastating loss that derails the United Auto Workers union's effort to organize Southern factories.

The 712-626 vote released late Friday stunned many labor experts who expected a UAW win because Volkswagen tacitly endorsed the union and even allowed organizers into the Chattanooga factory to make sales pitches.

The UAW for decades has tried without success to organize a foreign-owned plant in a region that is wary of organized labor. The loss now makes it even harder for the union to recruit members at another Southern factory.

"If they can't win this one, what can they win?" asked Art Schwartz, a former General Motors labor negotiator who now is a consultant in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

UAW President Bob King, in a 2011 speech to workers, said the union has no long-term future if it can't organize the Southern plants. King, however, stuck to statements he made earlier that the union would seek a vote and respect any decision made by workers.

"While we certainly would have liked a victory for workers here, we deeply respect the Volkswagen Global Group Works Council, Volkswagen management and IG Metall for doing their best to create a free and open atmosphere for workers to exercise their basic human right to form a union," King said in a statement.
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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by glasseye » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:54 am

Amskeptic wrote:I am sorry to read this. I do not understand how we came to hate unions so much . . .
It's not that they hate unions, it's that they are out-spent, steamrollered, coerced and panicked by you-know-who.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/21856 ... he-vw-vote

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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by hercdriver » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:31 pm

I've worked for both places that have unions and don't. I'm not surprised at the vote in Tennessee. I worked in Atlanta under the umbrella of a union and it wasn't uncommon for coworkers to focus on the politics of the union and discount its protections. The employees from southern states were also more likely to side with management on issues of pay/ the ability to compete. As a general rule the folks in the south seemed to feel that the recent financial success of the south was a direct result of the unions strong hold in the north and their lack of presence in the south.

In a way I think they're right. The pendulum of power is swinging. The unions in the north had helped incompetent management teams craft unsustainable contracts. The unfortunate result was corporations moving to right the past indiscretions. As corporate America gets back on its' feet, it will need to be bridled again.

I favor the the phrase, " Management gets the union it deserves."
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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Xelmon » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:18 pm

I read the current events, such as UAW is flipping their lids and all that. However, I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

Could ya guys please explain the background?

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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Lanval » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:34 pm

Xelmon,

I think the response to this is in light of the long-standing history of abuse on the part of employers in the past and present. Most people who look at the history of unions can see why unions came into being; the wealthy elite used their wealth to exploit the workers in a not-free market. Unions were used to balance that power and achieve better pay/services for the workers.

While it's true that unions are no longer as necessary as they once were (the government is far less likely to side with the wealthy, or openly help the wealthy as the US government did in the 19th century), many people recognize that the intention of the unions (even if the function isn't perfect) is good for parity in the workplace. It's a system of checks and balances (owner/capital vs. worker/labor) and is meant to work messily but more-or-less fairly, just as the governmental checks and balances created by the Constitution was meant to be unwieldy in order to limit excess and abuse.

Do unions always go good? No. That said, do you feel like putting your trust and well-being in the hands of a CEO who is divorced from your reality? If not, then the union is one way (the most likely way, I think... perhaps even the only way, if you accept that justice comes with a price tag) to ensure fairer treatment for the workers. If that's true, then the refusal of those auto workers is unusual in the larger context. Locally though, it makes sense, as the above post notes.

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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Cindy » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:49 am

The American dream has gone to some people's heads. The big shots know this and use it against them. Why would they need the representation and support of a union when they themselves will soon be wildly rich and successful? Sometimes the little guys become nothing more than little guys, but to accept that fact is like admitting failure, with our Alger-esque mentality.

When labor unions first developed, the American dream was smaller and more realistic in scope: finish high school, maybe go to college (maybe not), get a good job, buy a house, retire. Unions could help you do that.

Just a few generations back, there was less outrageous wealth. We had robber barons and trust-fund babies, yes, but not the sick proliferation of overpaid CEOs and certainly not the same level of celebrity nonsense. We now aspire to something that is entirely out of reach for 99% of the population and it influences our political behavior. That's why choices, like the one in this article, seem to make no sense.


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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:06 am

Cindy wrote:The American dream has gone to some people's heads. The big shots know this and use it against them. We now aspire to something that is entirely out of reach for 99% of the population and it influences our political behavior. That's why choices, like the one in this article, seem to make no sense.


Cindy

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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:57 pm

Cindy wrote:The American dream has gone to some people's heads. The big shots know this and use it against them. Why would they need the representation and support of a union when they themselves will soon be wildly rich and successful? Sometimes the little guys become nothing more than little guys, but to accept that fact is like admitting failure, with our Alger-esque mentality.
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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:58 pm

I was busy with family stuff this weekend, so didn't see the news until today. I think this op-ed article from local detroit newspaper sums it up nicely:
http://www.freep.com/article/20140216/C ... s-to-shake


hercdriver wrote: I favor the the phrase, " Management gets the union it deserves."
I totally agree with the above - according to the Freep article, the workers at VW have a pretty good work environment, so they felt they didn't need a union. We're not there, we don't work there, so we really don't have a right to judge.

However, what really irked me, is all of the labor bashing from the local Republican gov't officials......excuse me, but if a private (e.g. non gov't entity - not making a difference between publicly traded or privately owned) company wants to invite a union in, what do they care? They are bringing jobs to YOUR community? And then to threaten to take away incentives because VW tacitly encourages a union since it works with the way they do business? Yeah, that makes lots of sense. That is just plain dumb. As an elected official, you should be courting new business that makes sense and grows your tax base, and if you've already made the decision that auto manufacturing makes sense, then it shouldn't matter one wit if they unionize or not esp. if it is a right to work state. Idiots.
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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:51 pm

When I worked in Florida designing building mechanical systems, I always preferred to have the union shops do the implementation. The union had a strong apprenticeship program, so all the workers were qualified, and followed best practices to a tee. They worked hard, and took pride in their work. For this they made about 20% more than the non-union shops, who picked up whoever off the street, and cut corners when you weren't looking. The premium was worth every penny.

The UAW, on the other hand, is a bad joke. You say management gets the union they deserve? Well, it's not 1936 anymore, and that's where the UAW was stuck, and is only a little better now. They obtained legal monopoly power, and used it to devastating effect. The companies are forbidden from working together, so when the union strikes one of them, they have to cave, because the sales they lose to their competitors will never be recouped.

You could fill a book with stories, but I'll share a few. In 1993, times were good, so the companies were making money, and agreed to a contract that virtually guaranteed employment, and turned labor in to a fixed cost. The union repaid the generosity with a series of targeted strikes that caused massive disruption to the supply chain. The domestics had adopted the "just in time" manufacturing strategy pioneered by the Japanese. But where it gave the non-union transplants great efficiency gains, it meant that a strike at one GM plant caused the closure of 130 other plants, put 200,000 employees out of work (making most of their regular pay), and cost GM $2 Billion that could have been spent on product development.

Just recently, I did a technology show at one of the Big Three. The room needed to be rearranged from classroom seating to a more open layout. We waited 45 minutes for the proper union members to show up to move the tables, but when it got close to show time, we just moved the tables ourselves. Of course, just as we finished, they showed up, bitching about our rules violations and threatening to file a grievance. I'm sure they had a good laugh at us doing their work for them, and feeling fearful for doing so. That would never happen at Toyota or VW facility; without a union, common sense can prevail and the work can get done in a reasonable fashion.

I have seen with my own eyes workers asleep in cars on the plant floor, assisted by deliberate sabotage that halted the line. While the line was stopped, work rules prohibited anyone from doing anything productive, including clean up after themselves; that was the job of the sweeper.

Speaking of sweepers, my father in law was a millwright, a craftsman and artisan. He was the one they called when the $4 million machine that makes $100 a minute went down, and he would bring it back on line with a quickness. He made exactly the same as the idiot who got to goof off because he was worthless, and $1 an hour more than the sweeper who was nowhere to be found when there was sweeping to be done. That wasn't management's fault, they wanted to reward good performance, but union rules they had to swallow prevented it.

The UAW was able to gather up all kinds of workers, such that guys that cut the grass made five times what the market said they were worth.

The VW workers make a fair wage and are treated well, so they don't feel they need a union. And they are right to resist paying hefty dues that are spent on political campaigns they have no say in and may not agree with. And the Republicans have every reason to exercise their constitutional right of free speech to speak out, since they are the target of the UAW political spending.

A skilled, hard working employee with a good attitude who contributes to his employer's success is worth his $55 an hour. But when the union says he can't make more than the lazy, absent slouch with a poisonous attitude, the union is wrong.



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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by glasseye » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:30 am

We've all heard ad nauseum the tales of indolent unionized workers. Some of them are even true.

The fact remains that Germany's manufacturing sector, where unions and management work to their common benefit, is the envy of the industrial world. In North America? Not so much.

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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:46 am

glasseye wrote:We've all heard ad nauseum the tales of indolent unionized workers. Some of them are even true.

The fact remains that Germany's manufacturing sector, where unions and management work to their common benefit, is the envy of the industrial world. In North America? Not so much.

Blaming one side or the other is just pouring sand into the crankcase.
I agree. Greedy corrupt union bosses who fancy themselves as little CEOs just on the other side, are truly as despicable as any mean corporate titan. Duh.

But the *workers* do need representation, regardless. It is sophistry in the extreme to claim that greedy corrupt union bosses are any sort of "proof" that unions are "bad". There are union management people taking advantage of union workers just like there are corporate people taking advantage of non-union workers. Our income inequality graph has increased exactly as the decline of union representation.

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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by glasseye » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:08 am

It appears that the conservative machinations may have backfired.

BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen's top labor representative threatened on Wednesday to try to block further investments by the German carmaker in the southern United States if its workers there are not unionized.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessN ... S820140219
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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:46 pm

glasseye wrote:It appears that the conservative machinations may have backfired.

BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen's top labor representative threatened on Wednesday to try to block further investments by the German carmaker in the southern United States if its workers there are not unionized.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessN ... S820140219
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Re: Tennessee VW Workers vote down union

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:59 pm

Even though Michigan is now a right-to-work state, I'm sure they could get some sweetheart deals to setup shop in Detroit.
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