The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Over 18 ONLY! For grown-ups. . .

Moderators: Sluggo, Amskeptic

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:08 pm

The New York Times
Charles M Blow
July 15, 2013
In a way, the not-guilty verdict in the trial of George Zimmerman for his killing of Trayvon Martin was more powerful than a guilty verdict could ever have been. It was the perfect wrenching coda to a story that illustrates just how utterly and completely our system of justice — both moral and legal — failed Martin and his family.

This is not to dispute the jury’s finding — one can intellectually rationalize the decision — as much as it is to howl at the moon, to yearn for a brighter reality for the politics around dark bodies, to raise a voice and say, this case is a rallying call, not a death dirge.

The system began to fail Martin long before that night.

The system failed him when Florida’s self-defense laws were written, allowing an aggressor to claim self-defense in the middle of an altercation — and to use deadly force in that defense — with no culpability for his role in the events that led to that point.

The system failed him because of the disproportionate force that he and the neighborhood watchman could legally bring to the altercation — Zimmerman could legally carry a concealed firearm, while Martin, who was only 17, could not.

The system failed him when the neighborhood watchman grafted on stereotypes the moment he saw him, ascribing motive and behavior and intent and criminal history to a boy who was just walking home.

The system failed him when the bullet ripped through his chest, and the man who shot him said he mounted him and stretched his arms out wide, preventing him from even clutching the spot that hurt.

The system failed him in those moments just after he was shot when he was surely aware that he was about to die, but before life’s light fully passed from his body — and no one came to comfort him or try to save him.

The system failed him when the slapdash Sanford police did a horrible job of collecting and preserving evidence.

The system failed him when those officers apparently didn’t even value his dead body enough to adequately canvass the complex to make sure that no one was missing a teen.

The system failed him when he was labeled a John Doe and his lifeless body spent the night alone and unclaimed.

The system failed him when the man who the police found standing over the body of a dead teenager, a man who admitted to shooting him and still had the weapon, was taken in for questioning and then allowed to walk out of the precinct without an arrest or even a charge, to go home after taking a life and take to his bed.

The system failed him when it took more than 40 days and an outpouring of national outrage to get an arrest.

The system failed him when a strangely homogenous jury — who may well have been Zimmerman’s peers but were certainly not the peers of the teenager, who was in effect being tried in absentia — was seated.

The system failed him when the prosecution put on a case for the Martin family that many court-watchers found wanting.

The system failed him when the discussion about bias became so reductive as to be either-or rather than about situational fluidity and the possibility of varying responses to varying levels of perceived threat.

The system failed him when everyone in the courtroom raised racial bias in roundabout ways, but almost never directly — for example, when the defense held up a picture of a shirtless Martin and told the jurors that this was the person Zimmerman encountered the night he shot him. But in fact it was not the way Zimmerman had seen Martin. Consciously or subconsciously, the defense played on an old racial trope: asking the all-female jury — mostly white — to fear the image of the glistening black buck, as Zimmerman had.

This case is not about an extraordinary death of an extraordinary person. Unfortunately, in America, people are lost to gun violence every day. Many of them look like Martin and have parents who presumably grieve for them. This case is about extraordinary inequality in the presumption of innocence and the application of justice: why was Martin deemed suspicious and why was his killer allowed to go home?

Sometimes people just need a focal point. Sometimes that focal point becomes a breaking point.

The idea of universal suspicion without individual evidence is what Americans find abhorrent and what black men in America must constantly fight. It is pervasive in policing policies — like stop-and-frisk, and in this case neighborhood watch — regardless of the collateral damage done to the majority of innocents. It’s like burning down a house to rid it of mice.

As a parent, particularly a parent of black teenage boys, I am left with the question, “Now, what do I tell my boys?”

We used to say not to run in public because that might be seen as suspicious, like they’d stolen something. But according to Zimmerman, Martin drew his suspicion at least in part because he was walking too slowly.

So what do I tell my boys now? At what precise pace should a black man walk to avoid suspicion?

And can they ever stop walking away, or running away, and simply stand their ground? Can they become righteously indignant without being fatally wounded?

Is there anyplace safe enough, or any cargo innocent enough, for a black man in this country? Martin was where he was supposed to be — in a gated community — carrying candy and a canned drink.

The whole system failed Martin. What prevents it from failing my children, or yours?

I feel that I must tell my boys that, but I can’t. It’s stuck in my throat. It’s an impossibly heartbreaking conversation to have. So, I sit and watch in silence, and occasionally mouth the word, “breathe,” because I keep forgetting to.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:03 am

I hope you don't believe that rubbish.

1. That was never proved nor did the evidence support it.

2. Would you want a sixteen year old troubled youth carrying a firearm? Any idea how many homicides occur each year as the result of a youth? One doesn't have to dig deep nor look far to know that TM was well on his way down a rough road. Just because the defense chose not to bring it up (which they could have) doesn't mean TM was a saint. What is fact is that there was a physical altercation between Zimmerman and Martin that lasted several minutes (based on testimony) If Mr. Zimmerman were in control (gun drawn) why did Martin attack? If Zimmerman had a gun pointed at Martin early in the confrontation why did he wait so long before shooting? Why not shoot him from the first point of contact? Based on witness testimony both were fighting/wrestling on the ground for several minutes...Would that be easy to do with a firearm already in your hand? Not to mention without pulling a round off accidentally during the struggle. it's highly unlikely that a 16 year old( much less anyone) would have attempted to disarm someone who already had a gun pointed at you. Only one round was shot and that was AFTER several minutes of fighting between Zimmerman and Martin. Allowing so much time to pass prior to the shot shows:

{1. A person who reached a point that he/she feared for his life.

{2. Great restraint.

{3. Wasn't because TM was black

3. Just walking home? Sure of that? It took over 43 mins for him to make it were he did just to get Skittles? He didn't live far away at all, why 42+ mins?

4. Not uncommon considering it's SOP of most police officers or anyone who has enough sense to think that the suspect may have a weapon. Not unreasonable. according to the court transcript 'The arriving officer Anthony Raimondo, a Sergeant found Mr. Martin face down arms underneath him". Mr. Brown you wouldn't happen to be bending the truth now would you? There is a difference.

5. Yeah, where was everyone that seemed so concerned for young TM? We know where they are now.

6. It was raining and water washes away evidence easily. Not the departments fault.

7. You sure?

8. Again, not Mr Zimmermans fault not the authorities. Where were his concerned parents. To wait all night before reporting your 16 year old on missing from a trip to get Skittles? After all this occurred near his residence.

9. Ask anyone who's used 'Justifiable deadly force' and see what the answer is. Hint: I bet you won't be shocked.

10. That's because the DA knew they had a weak case from the get go and finally made a decision due to pressure. Pressure that was biased based on race.

11. Not so considering none of the jurors knew either the victim nor defendant prior to the case. Remember both sides are equally responsible for choosing the jurors. That's how our system works.

12. Again, the DA knew they had a very difficult case to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

13. See above:

14. Again the case was never about ones race. Now that the verdict is out it's all about race. The DA's case was weak, very weak.

15. Good question, The next time someone attacks you and beats your head into the concrete let us know how it ended. Remember one doesn't have much time before one can die as the result of blunt force trauma to the skull. Mr. Zimmermans wounds clearly were the result of being attacked. Fact.

16. And in the end wanting a conviction out of hate is wrong. Imagine a system like that? Imagine a system that allows a drunk driver who just killed a family off. Why? Because the jury decided that had the family not been on the road their deaths wouldn't have occurred. That would be a true tragedy. "Quote from Mr. Brown, "But according to Zimmerman, Martin drew his suspicion at least in part because he was walking too slowly." Hmmm, in part as well as walking to slowly. That statement implies Martin wasn't merely just slow walking. There was a lot of unaccounted time for Mr. Martin (42+mins) to get a bag of Skittles. Perhaps it appeared to Mr. Zimmerman that Martin was casing someone or something? Perhaps Mr. Martin was casing?

17. It's taught in police work that behavior can be and a lot of times is suspicious. How else would a vast majority of criminals have been caught and convicted? And sometimes the house does have to be burned down.

18. Quite simple: Always make wise and smart choices thru-out life. The answer may not be what you expect but life goes on. And most important, Don't ever take it upon yourself to attack someone with physical force without expecting force to be returned.

19. Yes, anyone can. As long as they are in the right they have every right.

20. Nothing, everyone knows that no system is perfect. But think about how bad it could be if we convict someone out of mere hate?

21. Then you've failed as a parent. That is tragic.


Fact: From 1975 - 2005 more than 58% of ALL homicides were committed by none other: Blacks. This is a documented fact. One can look it up. Where's the tragedy in that? Jessie Jackson....Mr. Sharpton....Mr. Charles M. Blow...Thought so.

Mr. Brown clearly has shown that when reading his statements. That there is his version, DA's version, Defense version and a final outcome of the jury. How many of you are willing to take the fall of a guilty verdict under the exact same circumstances/evidence as Mr. Zimmerman? Especially if you feel strongly about being innocent.

And to think that a guilty man never ran? Mr. Zimmerman never once made an attempt to flee, not once. That's not thinking like a guilty man. How many out there think the outrage would have been different if the incident had been caught on video clearly supporting Mr. Zimmermans case? Wouldn't have changed one bit...They'd be saying why did he have to shoot him...Why not just hold him at gun point until the police arrive...Why not just shoot him in the leg... :-({|=

Let's not forget that the DA also withheld a lot of evidence. Which the defense has filed a motion on. The DA is not supposed to withhold evidence. It's clear they did because it would have likely blew there case. No other reason.

Keep it clean gents...
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:44 am

72Hardtop wrote:I hope you don't believe that rubbish.

Fact: From 1975 - 2005 more than 58% of ALL homicides were committed by none other: Blacks.
Where's the tragedy in that? Jessie Jackson....Mr. Sharpton....Mr. Charles M. Blow...Thought so.
"the case was never about ones race. Now that the verdict is out it's all about race."

Good grief! You use a statistic to support your argument that is All About Race, yourself.

I choose to keep it simple.

A guy shot another guy to death in an avoidable confrontation.
The confrontation was initiated by the shooter.

Colin
(there are many many other points in your post that I hope others chime in on)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:58 am

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:I hope you don't believe that rubbish.

Fact: From 1975 - 2005 more than 58% of ALL homicides were committed by none other: Blacks.
Where's the tragedy in that? Jessie Jackson....Mr. Sharpton....Mr. Charles M. Blow...Thought so.
"the case was never about ones race. Now that the verdict is out it's all about race."

Good grief! You use a statistic to support your argument that is All About Race, yourself.

I choose to keep it simple.

A guy shot another guy to death in an avoidable confrontation.
The confrontation was initiated by the shooter.

Colin
(there are many many other points in your post that I hope others chime in on)
Why not? It's a fact. Where is everyone?

As for the confrontation being initiated by the shooter? The evidence and witness testimonial a lot of which came from TM's side supported the events that led up to the shooting of TM. Better to view it this way...they both could have easily walked away at different instances but chose not. Was that criminal in nature? Not according to the laws we have in this country. It's one of the many freedoms we have in this country, one that I have fought and served for. And if we lose that...then what? Look at every justifiable homicide that has ever occurred and based on your above statement most if not all could have been avoidable. But likely with an opposite tragic victim.

Quote, "Jeantel testified that Martin told her he was being chased by a "creepy-a** cracker."

"This was a disaster," criminal defense lawyer Mark Geragos told CNN's Anderson Cooper the day Jeantel testified. "This was the star witness, the star witness. The wheels came off and it was a train wreck. And there's no other -- there's no way to soft-pedal it." end quote.

Hence the race factor.

Hell, the system can't be as bad as the black community makes it out to be now can it? Jessie Jackson...Mr. Sharpton....Mr. Brown...thought so. (view below link)

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seat ... 77871.html
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:19 pm

72Hardtop wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:I hope you don't believe that rubbish.

Fact: From 1975 - 2005 more than 58% of ALL homicides were committed by none other: Blacks.
Where's the tragedy in that? Jessie Jackson....Mr. Sharpton....Mr. Charles M. Blow...Thought so.
"the case was never about ones race. Now that the verdict is out it's all about race."

Good grief! You use a statistic to support your argument that is All About Race, yourself.

I choose to keep it simple.

A guy shot another guy to death in an avoidable confrontation.
The confrontation was initiated by the shooter.

Colin
(there are many many other points in your post that I hope others chime in on)
Why not? It's a fact. Where is everyone?

A) As for the confrontation being initiated by the shooter? The evidence and witness testimonial a lot of which came from TM's side supported the events that led up to the shooting of TM. Better to view it this way...they both could have easily walked away at different instances but chose not."

B)Quote, "Jeantel testified that Martin told her he was being chased by a "creepy-a** cracker."

Hence the race factor.
As I read your posts, I see conclusion where questions belong.

A) Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. He had prior instances where his judgment/agenda was a factor.

B) What the hell is wrong with that?? Do you have a double-standard here?? Creepy-ass cracker is exactly how I would have perceived it. Why do you use it as a justification for . . . . what, exactly?

Zimmerman called Martin a "fucking punk . . . up to no good", based on far less than being stalked by a guy in a vehicle. Why did you bring up only that Martin said "cracker"?
Note that he was creeped out! Afraid. Telling his girlfriend in a private call. Zimmerman is publically hostile to the 911 operator, making stereotypical assumptions of a profiling sort.

But what really gets me here is:
Just walking home? Sure of that? It took over 43 mins for him to make it were he did just to get Skittles? He didn't live far away at all, why 42+ mins?
This country is all about taking your time to get your Skittles. We do not have to put on an Orwellian "look of pleasant purposefulness" on our way to get our Skittles. We do not have to answer to people like you who decide that 42 minutes is too much time to go get our Skittles. Do you understand the country you served? Do you think Martin was up to no good? Well, here's the point. It does not matter what you think. It does not matter what Zimmerman thought. It does not matter. We are free to go get our Skittles as we see fit, without being shot. Do you think Martin might have been scared? I do. I think he fought hard without weapon, to neutralize this stalker threat as quickly as possible. I think George was cocky and belligerent and insulting. But hey . . . guess what? It does not matter. What matters is that one man's life and liberty were taken by another man who should have stood back. Period. And though I would not have charged him with 2nd degree murder, I would have charged him with negligent homicide.

I agree with Charles M Blow, I do not know about these others you list, but justice was not served.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:46 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:I hope you don't believe that rubbish.

Fact: From 1975 - 2005 more than 58% of ALL homicides were committed by none other: Blacks.
Where's the tragedy in that? Jessie Jackson....Mr. Sharpton....Mr. Charles M. Blow...Thought so.
"the case was never about ones race. Now that the verdict is out it's all about race."

Good grief! You use a statistic to support your argument that is All About Race, yourself.

I choose to keep it simple.

A guy shot another guy to death in an avoidable confrontation.
The confrontation was initiated by the shooter.

Colin
(there are many many other points in your post that I hope others chime in on)
Why not? It's a fact. Where is everyone?

A) As for the confrontation being initiated by the shooter? The evidence and witness testimonial a lot of which came from TM's side supported the events that led up to the shooting of TM. Better to view it this way...they both could have easily walked away at different instances but chose not."

B)Quote, "Jeantel testified that Martin told her he was being chased by a "creepy-a** cracker."

Hence the race factor.
As I read your posts, I see conclusion where questions belong.

A) Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. He had prior instances where his judgment/agenda was a factor.

B) What the hell is wrong with that?? Do you have a double-standard here?? Creepy-ass cracker is exactly how I would have perceived it. Why do you use it as a justification for . . . . what, exactly?

Zimmerman called Martin a "fucking punk . . . up to no good", based on far less than being stalked by a guy in a vehicle. Why did you bring up only that Martin said "cracker"?
Note that he was creeped out! Afraid. Telling his girlfriend in a private call. Zimmerman is publically hostile to the 911 operator, making stereotypical assumptions of a profiling sort.

But what really gets me here is:
Just walking home? Sure of that? It took over 43 mins for him to make it were he did just to get Skittles? He didn't live far away at all, why 42+ mins?
This country is all about taking your time to get your Skittles. We do not have to put on an Orwellian "look of pleasant purposefulness" on our way to get our Skittles. We do not have to answer to people like you who decide that 42 minutes is too much time to go get our Skittles. Do you understand the country you served? Do you think Martin was up to no good? Well, here's the point. It does not matter what you think. It does not matter what Zimmerman thought. It does not matter. We are free to go get our Skittles as we see fit, without being shot. Do you think Martin might have been scared? I do. I think he fought hard without weapon, to neutralize this stalker threat as quickly as possible. I think George was cocky and belligerent and insulting. But hey . . . guess what? It does not matter. What matters is that one man's life and liberty were taken by another man who should have stood back. Period. And though I would not have charged him with 2nd degree murder, I would have charged him with negligent homicide.

I agree with Charles M Blow, I do not know about these others you list, but justice was not served.
Colin

1. Mr. Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to stay in his car. His past wasn't the case on hand here. He clearly didn't have much of a past otherwise he would not have been allowed to own a firearm let alone carry one concealed. This is a free country just as you stated. Correct? The 911 operator also testified under oath that she did not feel that Mr. Zimmermans responses were out of the ordinary or unreasonable.

2. It is no justification, but it shows prejudice and several high profile attorneys agreed that it blew there case and was uncalled for.

3. Because it adds to Mr. Zimmermans testimony as to what led up to the shooting. If someone were hanging out in your dark parking lot for an hour and later upon checking you found that not only your car but several others were broken into you would not tell the authorities you saw a suspicious man in the lot for over an hour?

4. It's clear that Mr. Martin was the aggressor due to the lack of injuries on him. He had only one gunshot wound. No other signs of injury to his body. He did however have grass and dirt a strung his clothing. Typical of someone involved in a fight on the grass/dirt.

5. Was the ending tragic...Yes...but criminal? No.

Criminally negligent manslaughter..."It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim."

It's clear the DA would NOT of been able to convict Mr. Zimmerman of Negligent homicide AKA manslaughter. getting out of ones car is far from a high degree of negligence.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:03 pm

72Hardtop wrote:
The 911 operator also testified under oath that she did not feel that Mr. Zimmermans responses were out of the ordinary or unreasonable.
I testify that a private conversation where one person is "creeped out" by a stalker is not out of the ordinary nor unreasonable.

Over the years on this itinerary, I have interacted with many people who were "suspicious" of my presence. I have yet to be shot, but I hasten to add that some people are amazingly hostile based only on what is going on their own minds. I am older than a teenager, so I seek to disarm them with commiseration and deference. I can see where Traavon did not have skills.

Trayvon was set up for a confrontation by an angry little man who wanted to be a big shot. That's my opinion.

Trayvon is now dead. Angry little man should most definitely been charged with ending his life.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by 72Hardtop » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:23 pm

The following paints a better picture who Mr. Martin is/was and his respect not only towards himself but those he dealt with friend or foe.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... -violence/

You forgot one other word...cracker

One must acquit...if the Skittle don't fit.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:29 am

72Hardtop wrote:The following paints a better picture who Mr. Martin is/was and his respect not only towards himself but those he dealt with friend or foe.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... -violence/

You forgot one other word...cracker

One must acquit...if the Skittle don't fit.
That link did not further the discussion. When I see a photograph labeled " Trayvon Martin Poses Aggressively", it turns me off. I saw a kid just trying to pose, to posture, to present an identity like all teenage kids do. Sure he might have done drugs, might have tried to make drugs. That is utterly irrelevant to his free passage to the store and back home. We do not indict by association here in the United States of America. I could waste your time with links to George Zimmerman's Wannabe Cop past.

No I choose to keep it focused and simple. I can more readily identify with a kid's attempt to make his way and the mistakes that surely occur, than some guy who is trying to be the neighborhood Instiller Of Order.

The Law is designed to strip away the moralizing judgmentalism of those who impugn the motives and actions of others. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, means different things to different people. Trayvon's pursuit was snuffed out.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

RussellK
IAC Addict!
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by RussellK » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:36 am

72Hardtop wrote:The following paints a better picture who Mr. Martin is/was and his respect not only towards himself but those he dealt with friend or foe.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... -violence/

You forgot one other word...cracker

One must acquit...if the Skittle don't fit.
Stop it. If being a 17 YO ass is justification for someone getting shot then surely I'd have been dead years ago. It doesn't matter if Trayvon Martin was a smart mouth punk or a 300 pound man with prison tats on his forehead, he wasn't acting unlawfully and Zimmerman had no business or right in confronting him. Feeling gun brave is the only reason Zimmerman rejected the police dispatcher's instruction to let the police do their job and for that he should bear responsibility for Trayvor Martin's death.

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:30 pm

The 911 dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer. They can only merely provide suggestion as to ones safety due to liable reasons. The dispatcher testified to that under oath. Its on the record. Does that mean GZ couldn't have waited? No. It was split second choice anyone could have made. Anyone that feels its only the police departments job to approach suspicious person/people needs to realize its not. We all have an obligation to make our neighborhoods and streets safe. Mr Zimmerman as well as anyone has every right under the law to approach and question anyone they believe acting suspiciously. And one has every right to defend himself if attacked. I doubt anyone will disagree with that. The neighborhood had a rash of burglaries and break-ins as well as several assaults. Was TM profiled based on race? No. He was asked to give a description and he did without prejudice. And lets not forget the FBI investigation into his background...he grew up in a mostly black neighborhood...several good friends he grew up with were black...and his high school prom date was black. The investigation found nothing.

At which point was he not acting unlawfully? Before or after he clearly attacked Mr. Zimmerman. Those wounds just didn't occur because of the rain. They were the only two fighting that night.

So you dismiss all the info into TM's background on the basis of (1) photo title that wasn't titled by the poster originally? All the info posted with regards to TM shows his true character. It paints a picture as to who the person is. There is an old saying, " If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:37 pm

According to some views this man is apparently getting what he deserves.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seat ... 77871.html

Its apparent the system isnt that bias towards those of color.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

RussellK
IAC Addict!
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by RussellK » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:26 am

72Hardtop wrote: Anyone that feels its only the police departments job to approach suspicious person/people needs to realize its not. We all have an obligation to make our neighborhoods and streets safe. Mr Zimmerman as well as anyone has every right under the law to approach and question anyone they believe acting suspiciously.
I don't need to realize anything of the sort. Like the dispatcher who advised Zimmerman, our police department also tells us to let them do their job. I live in a pretty safe, city neighborhood right smack in the middle of hell. Nightly there are kids playing safely outside after dark, their bikes left out for easy taking yet still there each morning. Heck I can jog at 2:00 AM through our city park with nary a worry. All made possible through neighbors watching out for each other, reporting anything out of the ordinary, and caring enough to be involved. We even have a neighborhood watch (watch being the operative word) program with a golf cart and flashing lights. But no one carries more than a cell phone and a pretty good flashlight. That way our kids won't get shot....or anyone else's.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:41 am

72Hardtop wrote: Anyone that feels its only the police departments job to approach suspicious person/people needs to realize its not.
Excuse me? It's my job to insert my defenseless self into situations for which I am not trained? No, I choose my confrontations carefully. I also live by the credo "Above All Do No Harm."
72Hardtop wrote: We all have an obligation to make our neighborhoods and streets safe.
Zimmerman certainly failed at that. We do not need macho testosterone cop-wannabees working out their personal rage issues on others. I see it all the time, angry losers looking for trouble and hiding behind bogus excuses like, "I was protecting the neighborhood" or "he was disrespecting that girl" or "he spit on the sidewalk". No thank-you, I do not agree that everyone has the temperament to maintain public order.
72Hardtop wrote: Mr Zimmerman as well as anyone has every right under the law to approach and question anyone they believe acting suspiciously. And one has every right to defend himself if attacked. I doubt anyone will disagree with that.
"Acting suspiciously" is open to interpretation. Law or not, you may walk into trouble if you get snoopy and strident.
72Hardtop wrote: At which point was he not acting unlawfully? Before or after he clearly attacked Mr. Zimmerman. " If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck.
You CANNOT claim that he clearly attacked Zimmerman. We were not there. You "clearly" show a conclusion without all the data. There is ambiguity here. You show no effort whatsoever, give no credence whatsoever to Martin's experience of the confrontation. He was creeped out before the confrontation. He was not the one making disparaging comments about "no-good punks" playing neighborhood cop, was he? He was the prey.

Sometimes ducks are merely decoys. Sometimes teenagers with hoodies are just walking home with Skittles and would dearly love to be left alone. I have no doubt in my personal opinion that Zimmerman was out to cause trouble. If I was in Trayvon's shoes, I would be scared and would defend my freedom to walk home without being harassed by some cock cracker.
Colin
(the greater issues brought up by this tragic confrontation do need to be addressed . . . where some see "race", I see destructive economic inequity hiding)
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

User avatar
Bleyseng
IAC Addict!
Location: Seattle again
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

Post by Bleyseng » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:53 am

What was Trayvon doing that was against the law that required Zimmerman to not wait for the police and act to "stop a crime"? Nothing, so in my book Zimmerman committed murder. It doesn't matter if Trayvon was a so called drug dealing punk at 17 years old as long as he wasn't in the midst of a violent crime that required Zimmerman to act to save another life with deadly force. We live in a so called "Free Country" where you can walk down any street and not be stopped just because you are walking down the street. Although this might be ending as the GOP is pushing for ID laws to catch the illegals and terrorists that lurk behind bushes and trees.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

Post Reply