Left brake and turn signal issue
- CikanVuz
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Left brake and turn signal issue
Hi all.
This question is in regard to my 1970 Bay that I bought this past March, which as an electrical issue I can't find.
When I step on the brakes, the front left turn signal lights up solid (flashes when turn signal is on as should) and in the rear,
I am told the parking light filament glows instead of the brake light. (never seen it for myself).
I installed one of those 3rd brake lights from Bus Depot and it works great and as should when I put on the brakes.
Thing is, when I put on my left turn signal, the 3rd brake light flashes.
I checked the wiring on the left rear brake light assembly and it "seem" to be correct and if I switch wires, nothing works.
I checked wires on front left turn assembly and they are correct too.
Anyone have any idea just what is crossed and where I look next next? I am having a heck of a time finding aything under that dash
and I have no idea how to even access any relays or switches under there.
Thanks kindly in advance.
This question is in regard to my 1970 Bay that I bought this past March, which as an electrical issue I can't find.
When I step on the brakes, the front left turn signal lights up solid (flashes when turn signal is on as should) and in the rear,
I am told the parking light filament glows instead of the brake light. (never seen it for myself).
I installed one of those 3rd brake lights from Bus Depot and it works great and as should when I put on the brakes.
Thing is, when I put on my left turn signal, the 3rd brake light flashes.
I checked the wiring on the left rear brake light assembly and it "seem" to be correct and if I switch wires, nothing works.
I checked wires on front left turn assembly and they are correct too.
Anyone have any idea just what is crossed and where I look next next? I am having a heck of a time finding aything under that dash
and I have no idea how to even access any relays or switches under there.
Thanks kindly in advance.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Do you have a part number or link for the center mount brake light?CikanVuz wrote:Hi all.
This question is in regard to my 1970 Bay that I bought this past March, which as an electrical issue I can't find.
The 1971 and earlier buses needed to shut off the brake light at the rear for whichever side was getting a turn signal call. This occurred at the turn signal switch which makes for some exciting wiring in the steering column support area.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Yep, GoWesty.com
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details. ... parent_id=
I put one in my ghia too and I don't have this issue with the ghia. I knew the brake light glowed in the front before I installed the 3rd light as I saw it in the window of a shop as I was parking but I had no idea the rear blinker was flashing incorrectly too until I hooked up the 3rd light as saw its indication flashing in my rear view mirror when I went to turn left.
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details. ... parent_id=
I put one in my ghia too and I don't have this issue with the ghia. I knew the brake light glowed in the front before I installed the 3rd light as I saw it in the window of a shop as I was parking but I had no idea the rear blinker was flashing incorrectly too until I hooked up the 3rd light as saw its indication flashing in my rear view mirror when I went to turn left.
- Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
You cannot use this brake light with shared turn-signal/brake lamps. The Ghias and the Vanagons and later bay buses use separate turn indicators from brake lights.CikanVuz wrote:Yep, GoWesty.com
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details. ... parent_id=
I put one in my ghia too and I don't have this issue with the ghia. I knew the brake light glowed in the front before I installed the 3rd light as I saw it in the window of a shop as I was parking but I had no idea the rear blinker was flashing incorrectly too until I hooked up the 3rd light as saw its indication flashing in my rear view mirror when I went to turn left.
With an early bus, your center brake light will back-feed up the turn signal wire.
Your best solution will be to separate the center brake light from anything having to do with the tail lamp wiring and use a simple relay to "read" the brake switch output, and send 12 volts to the center brake lamp. A relay would allow you to run 12 volt supply for the center brake lamp right off the downstream side of the reverse lamps fuse, and you could run a relay control wire under the car to the brake light switch.
Colin Yaah?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Ok, thanks! I will give that a shot and post when I get it done if it fixed the issue or not.
Given I put LED lights in my 68 bug for the brake lights instead of stock , I didn't think there would be an issue with the bus.
Thanks again and I will give what you suggested a try as soon as I either find a relay in my spare parts, or pick one up.
Given I put LED lights in my 68 bug for the brake lights instead of stock , I didn't think there would be an issue with the bus.
Thanks again and I will give what you suggested a try as soon as I either find a relay in my spare parts, or pick one up.
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Oh, I do not have stock reverse lights hooked up on the bus. the wires just are no where to be found... I installed some and put them on a direct wire on/off switch. (They are the funny looking little things on the bumper)
Can I still feed of the reserve light at the fuse box? (I "Think I can" but given I am no wiring expert and that rats nest hanging by a zip tie gives me shivers as it is, thought I best ask... )
Can I still feed of the reserve light at the fuse box? (I "Think I can" but given I am no wiring expert and that rats nest hanging by a zip tie gives me shivers as it is, thought I best ask... )
- CikanVuz
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- Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
If your reverse light fuse is no longer sitting in its clip at the coil, you can run a wire from the coil (+) to the relay #30 yourself . . . with an inline fuse stuck in there.CikanVuz wrote:I did
Front turn signals on early bays can be ghostly glowing weirdos if their bulb contacts get wonky. The plastic housing that holds the spring-loaded contacts snaps into place with two skinny cheap looking barbs of plastic. If one side lets go, the bulb no longers presses against the contact.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
okie dokie! I will try to trace it all.
The housing on the passenger ( aka right side) has no tabs to it, it is like a pressure switch and needs just the right contact.
After I first got her, I noticed I would get the fat flash turn signal, so I looked everywhere. It turned out the battery mount ( beside floor) is gone... so when I accelerated and braked, the battery would slide back and forth, when back, it pressed against brake light. turn assembly causing the fast flashers. I put a pine 4 x 4 in there and not a problem THERE since LOL
I know, from my (now ex 68 bug, sniff, I miss her) that I HAVE to trace it all but darned if I cant figure out that rats nest where once-upon-a-time, there was a nicely laid out plan of wires... TY PO's for your (er-hem) legacy....
The housing on the passenger ( aka right side) has no tabs to it, it is like a pressure switch and needs just the right contact.
After I first got her, I noticed I would get the fat flash turn signal, so I looked everywhere. It turned out the battery mount ( beside floor) is gone... so when I accelerated and braked, the battery would slide back and forth, when back, it pressed against brake light. turn assembly causing the fast flashers. I put a pine 4 x 4 in there and not a problem THERE since LOL
I know, from my (now ex 68 bug, sniff, I miss her) that I HAVE to trace it all but darned if I cant figure out that rats nest where once-upon-a-time, there was a nicely laid out plan of wires... TY PO's for your (er-hem) legacy....
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
BTW My first VW was when I was 13. I got a 61 ragtop bug from my uncle. My dad, who was factory trained, said if I wanted it, I had to learn to fix it, ALONE ( and yes, he never helped more than yelling from his armchair what to try or to get a bigger hammer). I was the only girl in the 70's in my city who could pull a 40 horse (if need be), alone, pick it up and put it up on the work bench and fix it, re-install it and be on the road in less than 24 hours LOL
POINT? I MISS that 61 wiring harness LOL
POINT? I MISS that 61 wiring harness LOL
- Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Well, you're one-up on me then. I got my first VW illicitly in high school, no license, no registration, no insurance, no parental knowledge, total glorious stupid fun, sold it for a dollar profit at the end of the '77 school year.CikanVuz wrote:BTW My first VW was when I was 13. I got a 61 ragtop bug from my uncle. My dad, who was factory trained, said if I wanted it, I had to learn to fix it, ALONE ( and yes, he never helped more than yelling from his armchair what to try or to get a bigger hammer). I was the only girl in the 70's in my city who could pull a 40 horse (if need be), alone, pick it up and put it up on the work bench and fix it, re-install it and be on the road in less than 24 hours LOL
POINT? I MISS that 61 wiring harness LOL
Bought a '73 bus two years later. Drove it for 580,000 miles over 30 years, running perfectly right up to the point of impact on August 16, 2009.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Yah, my ragtop and I stuck it out for near ten years, until some looney made an left turn right in front of it. Nearly killed my brother ( he was borrowing her at the time). Killed my ragtop though. Then I fell into the wanting to dress and look like a girl scene, LOL, got an alfa romero GTV and gave up doing my own repairs.
But your roots have a way of find ya, don't they?
But your roots have a way of find ya, don't they?
- SlowLane
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livermore, CA
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Well, since you've already installed alternate back-up lights, I'll share what I did with my '71 many years ago.CikanVuz wrote:Oh, I do not have stock reverse lights hooked up on the bus. the wires just are no where to be found... I installed some and put them on a direct wire on/off switch. (They are the funny looking little things on the bumper)
I never did like the shared brake/turn signal thingy (struck me as a dumb-ass shortcut more appropriate to American iron), so I re-purposed the stock backup lights into turn signals, rendering the stock brake/signal lamps as brake-only.
I forget the details, but the conversion required a turn signal switch from a later model bus (I think I used a '72), a pair of orange-coated bulbs and some extra wires run to the back. I seem to recall also rewiring the dash signals to actually indicate which signal was flashing, instead of having them flash in tandem. I mounted a pair of Canadian Tire tractor headlights to the bumper for backup lights (through a relay).
The effect of the new turn signals was dramatic. There was no mistaking my intentions when I signalled a lane change.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
- CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Hey thanks Slowlane but I am not that brave with wiring just yet... LOL
So, I finally got a relay and sat down and did this and I want to make sure I have it figured out correctly before I actually do the wiring so I am turning to the pros to be sure I do this the right way, so, is my diagram right?
I hope so; lemme know please.
And TY!!
(as I am sitting here, staring at my pic it dawned on me: I need to actually HAVE a in-line fuse to do this, so off to pepboys I go... LOL)
Also, I notice everywhere ( now that I am looking( says 85 is ground but I wired up my fog lights with this diagram and they work,, but should I switch the 86 and 85 on it?
So, I finally got a relay and sat down and did this and I want to make sure I have it figured out correctly before I actually do the wiring so I am turning to the pros to be sure I do this the right way, so, is my diagram right?
I hope so; lemme know please.
And TY!!
(as I am sitting here, staring at my pic it dawned on me: I need to actually HAVE a in-line fuse to do this, so off to pepboys I go... LOL)
Also, I notice everywhere ( now that I am looking( says 85 is ground but I wired up my fog lights with this diagram and they work,, but should I switch the 86 and 85 on it?
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Left brake and turn signal issue
Yes.CikanVuz wrote:is my diagram right?
everywhere says 85 is ground should I switch the 86 and 85?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles