Pre heat ideas
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- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Pre heat ideas
Would like to run some additional pre heat for the IDF's. I have all the tin in place and pre heat duct (72) but the duct is covered at the moment. I'm trying to come up with an easy way to duct heat from the pre heat duct on the passenger side firewall to both carb tops. It would have to split so it can be ran to both carbs. Any ideas as to what can be used? With the least amount of fabrication.
Not having any icing issues but would like to help the carbs get more heat and help with fuel atomization on cool high humid days.
Not having any icing issues but would like to help the carbs get more heat and help with fuel atomization on cool high humid days.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- hambone
- Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
- Location: Portland, Ore.
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
The heat has to go away when the engine warms up, so you'd need a flappy-thermostat device. Ducting from someplace hot would be relatively easy with foil tubing.
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it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
hambone wrote:The heat has to go away when the engine warms up, so you'd need a flappy-thermostat device. Ducting from someplace hot would be relatively easy with foil tubing.
Yeah, I figured it would need a T-stat of some sort. But I figured if I downsize the hose from the pre heat duct that I'd be able to skip the T stat even more so given the system isn't a closed system as it is with the original set up. If not, any thoughts on what to use for T-stat? Something that could be relatively easy to install/fabricate?
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
How big are the throats to your carbs?72Hardtop wrote:hambone wrote:The heat has to go away when the engine warms up, so you'd need a flappy-thermostat device. Ducting from someplace hot would be relatively easy with foil tubing.
Yeah, I figured it would need a T-stat of some sort. But I figured if I downsize the hose from the pre heat duct that I'd be able to skip the T stat even more so given the system isn't a closed system as it is with the original set up. If not, any thoughts on what to use for T-stat? Something that could be relatively easy to install/fabricate?
You could have:
* superior filtration
*take off points for fuel vapors and crankcase fumes
*automatic thermostatic preheat with pre-aligned everything.
just by sticking in a stick '73 plastic air filter with the factory ducts leading to your IDFs
Only problem I see (other than it being butt-ugly) would be if the throttle linkages are a big clumsy series of bell cranks and whatnot.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Well they're 40mm Weber IDF's with 28mm vents. As for the linkage set up: http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/905279.jpg
Is it even possible to adapt a 72-73 air intake system onto IDF's? I used to have the stock stuff but did away with it years ago (after CA exempted pre '74 vehicles from smog).
Is it even possible to adapt a 72-73 air intake system onto IDF's? I used to have the stock stuff but did away with it years ago (after CA exempted pre '74 vehicles from smog).
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Oopsie . . . big double throats. Nope.72Hardtop wrote: Is it even possible to adapt a 72-73 air intake system onto IDF's?
There is no classy solution for your request with open air filters without boxing them in who knows what.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Just a thought...
Would it be possible to adapt/create a way to plum a hose from the pre-heat duct have it split then run to a fitting at the top of each carb filter cap. And at an early point adapt the T-stat from a 72-73 into the hose at the 'Y' where the hoses/ducting would split for each carb?
I would need to have a Y section that Id be able to adapt the T-stat to. Any ideas? How about hose/duct sizes what would be the best size to use?
I'm going to pick up one of these as well: http://www.buttysbits.com/throttle-kits.html
Very likely the last throttle linkage the bus will ever need.
Would it be possible to adapt/create a way to plum a hose from the pre-heat duct have it split then run to a fitting at the top of each carb filter cap. And at an early point adapt the T-stat from a 72-73 into the hose at the 'Y' where the hoses/ducting would split for each carb?
I would need to have a Y section that Id be able to adapt the T-stat to. Any ideas? How about hose/duct sizes what would be the best size to use?
I'm going to pick up one of these as well: http://www.buttysbits.com/throttle-kits.html
Very likely the last throttle linkage the bus will ever need.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Please understand that pre-heating the intake air is not a simple task of sticking a couple of hoses onto the air filter caps. The sheer volume of ambient air is enormous. The latent heat of evaporation is enormous. That is why we see condensation on carburetors even on a 75* day.72Hardtop wrote:Just a thought...
Would it be possible to adapt/create a way to plum a hose from the pre-heat duct have it split then run to a fitting at the top of each carb filter cap. And at an early point adapt the T-stat from a 72-73 into the hose at the 'Y' where the hoses/ducting would split for each carb?
I would need to have a Y section that Id be able to adapt the T-stat to. Any ideas? How about hose/duct sizes what would be the best size to use?
I'm going to pick up one of these as well: http://www.buttysbits.com/throttle-kits.html
Very likely the last throttle linkage the bus will ever need.
The air pre-heater supplies 100% of the engine's air when needed. Anything less is a waste of time. Little "breather hose" supplies of warm air are no match for everything flooding in through the air filter mesh.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Amskeptic wrote:Please understand that pre-heating the intake air is not a simple task of sticking a couple of hoses onto the air filter caps. The sheer volume of ambient air is enormous. The latent heat of evaporation is enormous. That is why we see condensation on carburetors even on a 75* day.72Hardtop wrote:Just a thought...
Would it be possible to adapt/create a way to plum a hose from the pre-heat duct have it split then run to a fitting at the top of each carb filter cap. And at an early point adapt the T-stat from a 72-73 into the hose at the 'Y' where the hoses/ducting would split for each carb?
I would need to have a Y section that Id be able to adapt the T-stat to. Any ideas? How about hose/duct sizes what would be the best size to use?
I'm going to pick up one of these as well: http://www.buttysbits.com/throttle-kits.html
Very likely the last throttle linkage the bus will ever need.
The air pre-heater supplies 100% of the engine's air when needed. Anything less is a waste of time. Little "breather hose" supplies of warm air are no match for everything flooding in through the air filter mesh.
Colin
I'm aware of that. I was considering the use of or adapting a different filter base for each carb (closed). Or perhaps modifying the stock set up using the filter can and air channels & T-stat. I'd just need a custom/modified base for each carb that could accept the stock air channels on top. It would be nice if someone offered something as such especially considering how many aftermarket duals there are out there.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
I see little concern for Reality from most of these aftermarket vendors.72Hardtop wrote: It would be nice if someone offered something as such especially considering how many aftermarket duals there are out there.
The aftermarket industry was answering the big complaint of "inadequate power" by adaptations of other brands. They could not give less of a damn for cold driveability issues. 40 years later, the latest cars have driveability that has never been better, and we now want some for our old classics. The only acceptable driveability I have experienced is from stock induction, and the best compromise of power and driveability is a thoroughly warmed up Raby engine.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
The following would work. I just need to adapt the T stat to it.
http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/ ... ort=0&all=
http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/ ... ort=0&all=
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
That is a solidly seriously beautiful butt-ugly option! You mu$t be very very devoted to your carburetor$ . . .72Hardtop wrote:The following would work. I just need to adapt the T stat to it.
http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/ ... ort=0&all=
Colin
( do they guarantee to clear the throttle linkages?)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Waiting for response back from them but it does appear it will. It's meant for duals and I'd imagine they'd of had to make consideration of linkage set up/s. Not to butt ugly. I'd get to run a paper filter as well. Now to just figure out how to hook up the pre-heat/T-stat.
The stock T-stat run off vac or was it electrical?
I know somewhere out there...there has to be someone offering something similar for MUCH cheaper.
The stock T-stat run off vac or was it electrical?
I know somewhere out there...there has to be someone offering something similar for MUCH cheaper.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
If you want to stay duals then I would go with that air cleaner setup and a set of IDF throttle bodies with megasquirt FI. Forget the carb warmup issues but it will cost lots more than using stock Ljet.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Pre heat ideas
Stock pre-heat thermostat was a bimetal vacuum valve in the right air horn. The *brass* nipple went to the vacuum actuator that actually pulled the flap to allow warm air up from the cylinders. The *black* nipple was connected to manifold vacuum. When cold, the bimetal allowed full vacuum to the actuator. When it warmed up, it would bleed the vacuum and the flap would close off the heated air. You could/can hear the vacuum valve "sing" when it was warm.72Hardtop wrote: Now to just figure out how to hook up the pre-heat/T-stat.
The stock T-stat run off vac or was it electrical?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles