IAC in Austin (7/24)

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jblair630
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Location: Austin, Texas
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IAC in Austin (7/24)

Post by jblair630 » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:17 am

It was hard to believe that Colin had come to Austin and it wasn't 43* and drizzly. It was drizzly but the temps were in the 90s with humidity to match. Lovely weather for working outside. :thumbleft: :drunken:

We had a lovely chat around coffee and planned the workday. The first item was to check out the motor that I had put into Phred a couple of months ago. (Phred's original engine had thrown a rod and I had done a rebuild with a shortblock from ebay) We went out and did a valve inspection and started it up. There had been some noises that I wanted to ask about and when we started it up, Colin got that very concerned look. The main pulley was moving in small circles and there was that clack-clack that had me puzzled. Seems that the bearings have become so much scrap or the crankshaft is bent or a number of other things (the engine is coming out today and it'll get torn down for inspection).

I really didn't want to get into an engine teardown and rebuild that day. I was more interested in learning about suspension, axles, etc. and we needed to get a piano wire for Colin's Dad. So after a long discussion about what might have happened to create this situation and what might be done about it, we took a break to start the piano wire hunt.

Colin's dad has a 1913 Steinway that he actually plays quite well. I heard a couple of snippets that were recorded when Colin and his brother visited him last. His original stuff is haunting and there are some real possibilities there. The piano in question has a broken F#-1 string and is in serious need of tuning. Colin, being the dutiful son, offered to replace the string and tune the piano when he visits his dad next. Well, the first shop we went to thought we were nuts when we asked for piano wire but there was a terrific old piano tuner (looked to be about 90 but acted 19) who told us all about piano wire, how to string it in the piano, and the proper use of Xerex anti-freeze in piano tuning. :-$ We went to a second shop and met Dominic and Dude (we can't remember his name but whenever I looked at him, I kept thinking "Duuuuuddee"), a couple of piano technicians who also thought we had come from another planet asking for piano wire but were willing to play along and try and help us. They had a bunch of strings in their work area but had no way of knowing exactly which one would serve our needs. We ended up comparing strings in the Steinway that was on the showroom floor with the strings they had in their shop. Even pulled out Colin's dial gauge to double check the width of the core and the windings. We also found a (VERY) basic electronic tuner and Colin got a crash course in tuning (always go sharp and then go back). Also found out that a 6.5 mm socket can be substituted for the $50 tuning wrench. Personally, I think Dominic and Dude will think about us and laugh for a good long time until Colin writes to them and tells them that he replaced the wire and tuned it up so that it sounds as beautiful as his motor does.

We got back to the house and had a good lesson on suspension, steering and what exactly the stabilizer bar does and why. A good dinner and conversation and Colin was on his way again. Even with the bad news about the motor, I considered it a good day (once I got over it).

Since then, Z found a small VW repair shop in the area (Crabtree Repair) that I had never heard of. I went and talked to the owner/mechanic/floorsweeper and was very impressed with him. He has that love of the engineering that Colin has and lots and lots of years of experience. His shop looks well used but organized with an area set aside for rebuilding engines that was immaculate. He's got a line on a used motor that might become available in the next couple of weeks or so. We'll see.

Until then, safe travels Colin. The motor sounds beautiful and we'll see you next time.

Jeffrey
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly." --Albert Einstein

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC in Austin (7/24)

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:50 am

jblair630 wrote:
There had been some noises that I wanted to ask about and when we started it up, Colin got that very concerned look. The main pulley was moving in small circles and there was that clack-clack that had me puzzled. Seems that the bearings have become so much scrap or the crankshaft is bent or a number of other things (the engine is coming out today and it'll get torn down for inspection).
Please be very observant as you tear it down, and use your finest deductive reasoning to determine what the cause of failure may have been. Like a house fire analysis, you want to seek the "hottest" spot in your engine (the most damaged bearing or part) and you want to determine if the surrounding detritus was a cause or an effect of the failure. As a general rule, the cause material is harder than the effect material. Grit is a cause material, aluminum flakes are an effect material.
Mis-assembly will present itself as well, things like, "dang! I put the oil pump in upside down" and my specialty "#2 bearing half is supposed to have a dowel in the right case?" (circa 1992).
Let us know what you find.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 129,490 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

texabus
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Post by texabus » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:21 pm

Jeffery,
Sorry about your engine.
Do you want or need help?
David

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:29 am

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein

That's a great sentiment, thanks for making my morning more sunny!
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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jblair630
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Post by jblair630 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:06 am

texabus wrote:
Jeffery,
Sorry about your engine.
Do you want or need help?
David
Thanks David. When the time comes to take a look at a replacement then I would like to give you a call. I've got a fair idea of what I am looking for in inspecting an engine but I would appreciate your expertise and eyes in looking for something that will last awhile. Do you know anything about Rick at Crabtree. I went and talked with him a few days ago and he seems like a good guy to deal with. He might have an engine become available in the next couple of weeks or so. Also, if you hear of a 1600 in decent condition then let me know and we can go check it out.

Jeffrey
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly." --Albert Einstein

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein

texabus
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Post by texabus » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:18 am

I think we should make an assesment of what you have and look at the possibility of rebuilding it. If you buy a used engine it is a crapshoot.
I am currently doing a 2.0, you should come over and have a look at it and the 72 panel that I just bought for Candis.
D

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:53 pm

texabus wrote:
If you buy a used engine it is a crapshoot.
D
I promise you, it is the most effective solution to getting rolling now.
The engine currently in the bus has a billion more questions than an engine that is already together and running. It is far easier to analyze a used engine that sounds good than it is to measure the mysteries lurking inside the current grey swirl clatterknockenmotoren whose oil cooler maybe a repository for whatever took out the bearings.

Compression can be checked via cranking pulses. Endplay can be checked with a couple of push-pulls on the crankshaft. Heat can be determined by coke build-up inside rocker boxes. Valves/seats can be checked by looking at retainer height evenness and adjusting screw heights above the locknuts.

Overall looks and condition and a brief history of what vehicle this "X" used engine came from will help fill in the blanks.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 129,490 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

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soulful66
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Post by soulful66 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:16 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
texabus wrote:
If you buy a used engine it is a crapshoot.
D
I agree with Amskeptic on this. I paid $300.00 for a used engine for my '79 bus, and it checked out good. Once it was installed and given a warm eng compression test, I discovered that I will get several years from it.

Hang in there, you will get a line on a good used eng. What about finding a rusted out car for cheap that runs? that why you can really test the engine.

Best of Luck!,
John
'72 westy 3TC
'73 westy 1700 dual solex
'79 westy 2000 F.I.

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zblair
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Post by zblair » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:41 pm

soulful66 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
texabus wrote:
If you buy a used engine it is a crapshoot.
D
I agree with Amskeptic on this. I paid $300.00 for a used engine for my '79 bus, and it checked out good. Once it was installed and given a warm eng compression test, I discovered that I will get several years from it.

Hang in there, you will get a line on a good used eng. What about finding a rusted out car for cheap that runs? that why you can really test the engine.

Best of Luck!,
John
Every day is a crap shoot! :geek:

Not meaning to be a smart ass, but within 24 hrs of speaking to Colin when he advised that if we could find a good working engine to put in Phred, that would be our best and quickest fix, we had one more or less became available to us. I tend to go with signs like that if my gut feeling agrees and this time it did, resoundingly. Yes, it could end up not working out, but again that's true of all things. The learning process can be priceless, particularly in retrospect.

In the meantime, I think Jeffrey looking at your engine David would be an excellent thing for him to do. Thank you for offering that. J's asleep now but I will mention this to him tomorrow morning so he can work out that detail with you.

Soulful, we've talked about that (getting a cheap ride) but instead we opted for getting J a shiny new Fuji Crosstown 3.0 bicycle. That new ride shaved off some minutes on his morning commute but he was happy, and that smile is also priceless.
:colors:
1971 T2 "Grateful Phred"
1986 300ZX "MC-Z"
2009 Prius "Amesan"

"Love something? Serve it."
~Roshni Mitra

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jblair630
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Post by jblair630 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:29 pm

Dave,

pm'ed you

Jeffrey
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly." --Albert Einstein

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein

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Velokid1
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Post by Velokid1 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:52 pm

zblair wrote: Soulful, we've talked about that (getting a cheap ride) but instead we opted for getting J a shiny new Fuji Crosstown 3.0 bicycle. That new ride shaved off some minutes on his morning commute but he was happy, and that smile is also priceless.
:colors:
:cheers:

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