EGR block off/Double relay query

[al_kaholik]

Hi Guys,

New member here, but long standing member on Volkszone.com. While looking for some info on my engine I stumbled across this site.

Time has taken its toll being in the UK on the car and as such the engine needs a little more TLC than just a service. I know that the EGR has a hole in it, which I did patch a while back however I think that it has opened up again. Problem is that the parts aren't available in the UK for this car, the restrictions never required it, and as such sourcing them is expensive plus outrageous postage costs.

Details of the car can be found in the thread in the signature, however a quickie is that the car is a '77 with full California spec FI/EGR/Lambda with Aircon



I'm after some details about the EGR block off - Does anyone have the spec of the block off plates, size wise, as I don't really have enough time presently to be disassembling/reassembling the car on the road side (great being away from "home"!). How many do I need and where are the places to insert? Presumably exhaust side and between the tinware and the upright tube? I don't suppose they'd be anything like the same size as preheat risers making the solution nice and simple?... This is likely just to be a temporary fix with the engine being returned to stock when funds allow.

Its running very hot, though some of this could also be timing which I plan to resolve in the near future as the car is about due a service. I'm also over the course of not too long going to be tuning the engine as best I can.

The double relay also has a slight quirk - there appears to be a couple of wires cut and joined near to it - without looking I couldn't tell you which they are (I've already looked at the great tech article) but was wondering if it is something common someone could diagnose without me delving into it.

Any info on further tuning of the system or common quirks is very welcome cause it's a rare beast in the UK.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Al

[dtrumbo]

Hi Al, and welcome!

You and I are among the very few on this forum with fuel injected Beetles. At one time, mine had air conditioning as well, but it was removed before I got it.

Anyhoo, regarding your EGR block-off. I made a plate myself out of a piece of scrap metal. You can get EGR gaskets pretty cheap as well. I don't think they're the same as heat riser block-offs. I checked out your Volkszone post and I didn't get if you know the point where the leak is or not. In my case, I had a leak at the pipe that attaches to the muffler so I blocked it off there (since restored properly). I would think you could install your block-off at any convenient point past where the leak is. As you probably know, you want to take care of this as a leaky EGR will result in a lean-running condition which isn't good for your exhaust valves.

Regarding the double relay. There's a fantastic pic in your Volkzone post that shows the nastiness. Stamped on the white wires are black numbers that I can almost see in the photo. You most certainly should be able to read them up close in person. Once you know the numbers on the wires, we can figure out what they do and where they go in the white socket that attaches to the relay.

That's a nice bug! Too bad to see the crash damage, hopefully the other party made good and you're back to perfection! Again, welcome and we look forward to hearing back from you!

[al_kaholik]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. Seems that I am one of few people in the UK with an FI beetle... Interestingly, its possibly the only car in the UK with dealer option air con in RHD.

Gaskets again aren't easy to get over here, that is unless any of the other FI setups use them Type 3/4 perhaps?

The leak is in the square "filter" can underneath. The pipe was split just before the flange that bolts to the one above the tinware. (The VZi post is pretty oly and as such some things have been sorted. The car is in much better shape albeit with a repro and poor bumper, bit rustier though But there are plans aloft. I'm under the impression that I should be blocking it at both the muffler and the tinware side and then disconnecting something? Very lost. Valves getting burnt is something that I'm aware of and keen to get it sorted ASAP. I don't suppose just disabling it would work in the very short term?

Unfortunately at work I can't view the photobucket pictures so forgot that there was even one on there of the wires, I'll take a look over the weekend while I'm sorting out the amp/sub levels and hopefully why the starter won't engage at the moment. Fuel pumps but no effort on the starter - jumps fine so I'm going to whack a hot start relay in. If that doesn't do it then there is more work to be done!

Thanks for the swift reply

[dtrumbo]

Gaskets again aren't easy to get over here...

Cheap and easy here.

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Detai ... 043131599A



If it works better for you, I can buy a couple for you and send them to you for the actual cost of the parts plus postage which shouldn't be too bad for such small items.

The leak is in the square "filter" can underneath. The pipe was split just before the flange that bolts to the one above the tinware... I'm under the impression that I should be blocking it at both the muffler and the tinware side and then disconnecting something?

Yes. Ideally you should just replace the filter, but they are a bit expensive, even here. I don't know what the vehicle inspection requirements are in the UK, but you might be required to have that filter in place for emission control purposes. Obviously you would know that better than I.

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Detai ... 043131617B

In the meantime, I think your plan is sound. Remove the split filter and block both the flange at the tin and at the exhaust.

Let me know if you need help sourcing parts.

[dtrumbo]

I almost forgot. Regarding your starting issue, before you go with the hot-start relay, make sure all the connections on your starter, specifically the solenoid, are clean and tight. You might save yourself some £££ if all it needs is a little elbow grease.

[al_kaholik]

A true gent. Thank you. I may take you up on the offer of the gaskets. However now that I know WW stock them I'm going to get the part numbers and see if I can't get them from the factory - http://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.de EDIT: only the cat is available from the parts centre after a quick check - shows how rare the engines were in Europe! Worth a punt if you can't find those hard to get parts, though no doubt with the size of the States you can get pretty much anything. Model specifics are causing issues as I said in the UK.

Unfortunately with the £:$ not being so good at the moment, and having to spend a chunk of money to justify the postage from anywhere, its mainly unviable.

UK emissions laws state that I don't need the EGR, or even a cat on a vehicle of that age. They are a nice to have and as such will be on there. Currently planning to get rid of the front charcoal canister and replace with a condensing tube which I have from an earlier model - same function except it puts the petrol back in the tank rather than it being collected in the coals.


RE: Starter - I've had a look underneath on the road side, ended up with a nasty bleeding hole in the side of my head! The part of London I live in isn't a good place to be a car owner facilities wise. Would I be correct in thinking that there are two connections on the starter on an FI car? I currently have just the one - the fat one from the side opposite the battery red/black (read driver's side for you guys). Connections are all clean and its had a new 4 AWG ground directly mounted to the starter - runs much better for it too so the gearbox strap will get replaced when I get around to it. I am suspicious of either the starter switch or the wiring having decayed. Japan has been an unforgiving mistress on many parts of the car.

I have the relay and wiring ready to go, rather than buying a kit. Eventually it'll get a full modern rewire, but plans down the line are making me hold off on that just at the moment.

[dtrumbo]

Would I be correct in thinking that there are two connections on the starter on an FI car? I currently have just the one - the fat one from the side opposite the battery red/black (read driver's side for you guys).

Besides the big black cable directly from the battery, there is only one other connection. The red/black wire from the 'start' position of the ignition switch which is connected to the solenoid that you mentioned. Under the rear seat is a 'Y' connector that splits this wire, one going on to the starter solenoid, the other going to the double relay. The split to the double relay is why you hear the pump run when you try to start the car. All good.

The necessity of the additional ground strap might be a clue to your starter troubles. Sketchy grounds cause a multitude of headaches, apparently in addition to the ones endured working on your car on the streets of London.

Regarding the gaskets. They're pretty cheap, but I had no idea what the postage would be. WOW! Assuming the envelop weighed a measley 10 ounces, the postage would be $8.84. Assuming you bought four gaskets at $2.50, plus what WW would charge to get them to me, then the $8.84 to get them to you, I can see how that would add up to more than desired. Another option is if you're making your own block-off plates, you could make your own gaskets too. Perhaps your auto parts stores stock gasket material for just such an occasion.

Good luck!

[al_kaholik]

One connection means that is all well and good. Wish I had the multimeter with me... I know for a fact that I can jump the starter across the terminals and it fires into life. So that leads me to think either the voltage is too weak, there is a break in the wire, or the ignition switch is duff.

Dunno where I read about the second connection, however its cleared things up. Problems are being eliminated much quicker.

Thanks for the interest, words of wisdom and replies. The next update will be next week as I'm not in the office tomorrow and should get to have a look over the weekend. Here's hoping to a fully working motor again!

[dtrumbo]

Dunno where I read about the second connection, however its cleared things up.

Buses have two connections at the starter, Beetles have one with the second connection made under the rear seat.

Maybe the relay will do the trick.

[al_kaholik]

Morning (or evening!)

Sorted the starter - the wire is defective between the ignition switch and the back seat, currently ha s atemporary fix which I'll make more permenant when I get a chance to do some serious re-wiring of a lot of the loom sometime next month.

As for the FI wires that are cut and joined, they are #12 and #40. I've had a look on here and other manuals but still aren't any the wiser as to where they go.

Help appriciated, thanks in advance.

Al

[dtrumbo]

As for the FI wires that are cut and joined, they are #12 and #40. I've had a look on here and other manuals but still aren't any the wiser as to where they go.

I looked on TS and in my manual and I had no luck as well.

I then went out and looked at my car... still no luck. While I was there, I snapped a few pictures. Maybe you can use them to compare to yours in an effort to solve the mystery. It's also possible that the Japanese model differs from the model sold here in the US.

I hope this helps.

[al_kaholik]

Thanks Dick,

I'll have a look later and a look at the pics too - Photobucket is blocked at work unfortunately. What is TS? I've seen it mentioned a couple of times...

Probably have to be the old fashioned way unless I can pull the double relay off and have a look if there is anything missing on the plugs.

[dtrumbo]

What is TS?

TheSamba.com

A widely popular VW-enthusiast site here in the US. In their technical section, among other things, are wiring diagrams for most of the VW air-cooled vehicles. A handy resource when you don't have it handy or you're (like me) simply too lazy to go look in your Bentley manual!

P.S. I believe the numbers printed on the white wires are supposed to indicate which pin of the connector (AFM, ECU, etc.) the other end of the wire is attached.

[al_kaholik]

Excellent! And thank you for the pictures - yours looks the same except I have a brown wire going into the plug with all the white wires, but otherwise the pinouts look the same. Like I said, unfortunately I think its going to be the old fashioned way.

TS: I'm more than familiar with it, just not under those initials. Bought a neat ECU cover from a guy on there that looks nice and factory, good price posted to the UK too. I used one of the diagrams on there to make a simplified by item wiring diagram for a 70 beetle which is a nice base for most non-FI beetle wiring.

AND I do have the Bentley - though they are much harder to come by over here. Not sure where I got it but it covers all the FI too - except its at my parent's place, along with everything else other than a basic tool kit and some feeler gauges. I've managed to blag a timing gun from a chap at work when I get back from holidays which meas I can get the engine nicely in tune too.

[germansupplyscott]

we make an EGR blockoff kit:

http://www.germansupply.com/xcart/custo ... ctid=17780