2 litre FI stalling problems

[vwlover77]

Although the filter is now clean, there may still be junk collecting where the fuel hose exits the tank, blocking the flow. It may be larger pieces causing a "logjam" that cannot make it down to the filter. Don't pronounce the fuel pump "dead" until the tank is cleaned out.

Our Newcastle experience was limited to passing through the airport on our way in, and passing by on our way to Alnwick Castle, Cragside, and my wife's ancestral home - the little village of Harbottle.

[dtrumbo]

So I'm curious, how does one go about "cleaning" a fuel filter? I'm not saying it can't be done (o.k, I'm sorta saying it), I'm just asking. As Don suggested, don't replace the pump just yet. Your evidence of the new filter being clogged again is really pointing toward debris in the tank. I (happily) stand corrected that the tank can be removed without removing the engine. Let us know how that goes.

I'm not sure what roller shutters are. A picture says a thousand words. If you can post one up, that would be great. Maybe I need them and I don't even know it!

We have a couple or three TV types here on the IAC. IFBWax is an big-shot anchor and I work at a TV station slumming it in the engineering department. Misszora recently escaped the TV trap and Ruckman101 works for a cable-access operation making really nice videos. My wife has relatives in the UK and her dream is to someday keep a VW bus in the UK so we can fly over there, tour the area and fly back home. Maybe if you get this fuel thing fixed, we can just hire yours! Welcome to the forum, sorry you won't be able to get on Colin's itinerary (at least this year).

[Amskeptic]

Welcome to the forum, sorry you won't be able to get on Colin's itinerary (at least this year).

I'll get the rowboat out in November, we can set up an appointment in early spring.
Colin
(quit this blabber in the Technical Forums . . . cOLIN)

[Amskeptic]

Although the filter is now clean, there may still be junk collecting where the fuel hose exits the tank, blocking the flow. It may be larger pieces causing a "logjam" that cannot make it down to the filter. Don't pronounce the fuel pump "dead" until the tank is cleaned out.

Words of Wisdom, well focused. Good, good, good. Now I can get back on the road to Maryland from here in thunderish North Carolina.
ColinWeMustCleanTheseForumsAgain

[chitwnvw]

So I'm curious, how does one go about "cleaning" a fuel filter?

Reverse flow?

[Scylla]

So I'm curious, how does one go about "cleaning" a fuel filter? I'm not saying it can't be done (o.k, I'm sorta saying it), I'm just asking. As Don suggested, don't replace the pump just yet. Your evidence of the new filter being clogged again is really pointing toward debris in the tank. I (happily) stand corrected that the tank can be removed without removing the engine. Let us know how that goes.

I'm not sure what roller shutters are. A picture says a thousand words. If you can post one up, that would be great. Maybe I need them and I don't even know it!

We have a couple or three TV types here on the IAC. IFBWax is an big-shot anchor and I work at a TV station slumming it in the engineering department. Misszora recently escaped the TV trap and Ruckman101 works for a cable-access operation making really nice videos. My wife has relatives in the UK and her dream is to someday keep a VW bus in the UK so we can fly over there, tour the area and fly back home. Maybe if you get this fuel thing fixed, we can just hire yours! Welcome to the forum, sorry you won't be able to get on Colin's itinerary (at least this year).

He put a high pressure air line through it and shook it around a lot. It seemed to remove most if not all of the crud. I'm talking about the fuel filter here..

The roller shutters are just the wooden blind things that serve as doors for the wardrobes/cupboards at the back of the bus. I recall reading a few posts from Riviera owners complaining that theirs were broken and replacements were hard to come by.

Being a tv reporter beats working for a living

[Scylla]

Our Newcastle experience was limited to passing through the airport on our way in, and passing by on our way to Alnwick Castle, Cragside, and my wife's ancestral home - the little village of Harbottle.

Since my bus is off the road, our camping trip for this Bank Holiday is now rather stymied. Plan B is a day out in the Northumberland countryside in my other ride, a Mazda MX-5, so I reckon we'll stop off for lunch at the Star in Harbottle and have a half in your name.

Wish the bus wasn't poorly. We've had it 6 weeks and have only managed one trip so far.

[midatlanticys]

Hi Damian, Welcome to the IAC - you should be able to find a WIX 33274 fuel filter in the UK to use on your bus. I assume you have run across references regarding the careful inspection of ALL fuel lines & hoses on your f/i engine; especially if you've just acquired the bus and don't have a clear picture of the maintenance history!

. . . and don't be overwhelmed by the info overload when researching DIY air-cooled maintenance, but I agree, there is a daunting amount of information to get through. . . . and pls continue to use this forum as a great resource. There is no such thing as a stupid question regarding *how to. . * on your Riviera!!

just as an aside - has anyone tried pulling the rust logjam out of a fuel tank using a small magnet on a stick down through the fuel tank level sensor hole? vacuuming the tank with a magnet, if you will? I mean, as a stopgap measure prior to the whole tank restoration thingy?

[Scylla]

Thanks for the warm welcome! The fuel lines were replaced just before I bought the bus.

Something is slightly bugging me though, and makes me tend slightly towards the theory that the fuel pump is on its last legs; the van will start, which means at least some fuel is getting through, but it then splutters and dies. Surely if the tank were clogged at the nozzle then no fuel at all would get through and it would not start at all? Perhaps the pump is working sufficiently well (or feebly) to get enough fuel through to start, but then fails?

These are just the thoughts of an ignorant newbie though, so I stand to be corrected! And whilst the tank may not be clogged, I know it needs to be pulled out and properly cleaned.

[midatlanticys]

Thanks for the warm welcome! The fuel lines were replaced just before I bought the bus.

Great!! but I would still want to confirm each and every one really is new and well secured. R. Atwell has some great diagrams and photos to use as your guide. Carefully checking fuel lines is a good way to become familiar with the various components on your engine, where they are and what they do!!

Yes, enough fuel may be getting through the logjam to run the engine for a bit on startup, but then the flow to the tank outlet brings more crud to that location and may choke the supply to a pump working hard to pull fuel through the tank outlet and a still partially blocked filter. I would want to follow Colin's lead and get a new filter on there and see if the symptoms relax again.
When you are changing the filter you could try letting some fuel from the tank run into a funnel and a see through receptacle while someone rocks the bus side to side and you may get a glimpse of the problem. If the fuel content looks especially nasty you could continue to rock the bus and drain fuel until things begin to clear up. This and changing filters may buy you time until you have time to do a proper job of the tank restoration. Good luck!!

[Randy in Maine]

Also keep in mind that the fuel pump on our engines does not come on automatically when the key is in the "on" position. It only starts to happen when the key is in the start position.

After you change out the fuel filter, install a 4' long peice of fuel line (use a clamp) on the fuel rail test port (that tiny little 7mm bolt had + washer and don't lose them) between the 3& 4 cylinders and see if it is really pumping a L of fuel (into a gas can outside of the bus) in about 30 seconds.

Just so you will know, FI buses don't have a screen or "fuel sock" inside the fuel tank, so no need to go there.

When you are buying a few fuel filters, pick up a TSII also. You need to have a spare in your toolbox. And print out that FI troubleshooting guide also.

[Gypsie]

Something is slightly bugging me though, and makes me tend slightly towards the theory that the fuel pump is on its last legs; the van will start, which means at least some fuel is getting through, but it then splutters and dies. Surely if the tank were clogged at the nozzle then no fuel at all would get through and it would not start at all? Perhaps the pump is working sufficiently well (or feebly) to get enough fuel through to start, but then fails?

This is one of the first steps in earning your buspilot wings my friend.
welcome to IAC land.

The fact that your thinking about systems and what is happening will go a long way toward you being able to track down issues and fixin' em. Sometimes fixin' em means riggin' somethin up to get you home sometimes it means bringiing it back to original condition with new parts, considered and dilliigent assembly.

Regarding your fuel delivery issue. The fact that you have had fuel filter clogs in short order tells me that you have chunks in the tank. If you have a bunch of scaly rust sitting over the outlet of your tank they will let fuel seep past and fill the line allowing you to get it started but when the demand is for a continuous flow of a certain amount of fuel begins (this is required to keep enough pressure in the line to spritz out of the injectors) the restriction prevents enough flow to keep said pressure to the proper amount.

Following the track of 'test and inspect' prior to buying parts, I would recommend doing a fuel flow test ala Randy in Maine:

Also keep in mind that the fuel pump on our engines does not come on automatically when the key is in the "on" position. It only starts to happen when the key is in the start position.

After you change out the fuel filter, install a 4' long peice of fuel line (use a clamp) on the fuel rail test port (that tiny little 7mm bolt had + washer and don't lose them) between the 3& 4 cylinders and see if it is really pumping a L of fuel (into a gas can outside of the bus) in about 30 seconds.

As you become familiar with this system you will know why and how the fuel pump comes on when it does (Double relay circuit and the AFM circuit)

First you might check to see if the fuel tank allows fuel to flow out with just gravity. Disconnect the fuel line prior (upstream) to the filter and let it flow into a container. Not sure if the filler cap makes a vacuum tight seal...hmmm.

I had a tank clog once that wouldn't allow the fuel to flow. It was a big pack of rusty pieces in the outflow pipe of the tank, When disconnected prefilter it just dripped when it should have been flowing. Cleared on the side of the road with a coat hanger before a tank extraction and cleanout several weeks later. got me home and around for awhile.

Then assure that all fuel lines do not have kinks in them. Especially from the tank through the pump (or upstream from the pump). Kinks will slow flow.

Next you will want to figger out how to start the fuel pump flow manually. This can be done by moving the AFM wiper (i think you can push a screwdriver against the vane in the filter housing so that it will engage the contact. The key will need to be in the on position. Bus owners may have tips here.). You will also need to disconnect the return line, and have a way to catch the fuel flow after it leaves the Fuel pressure regulator(FPR), as well as blocking/pinching the line that goes back into the tank so the tank doesn't just drip onto the ground.

You will be turning on the fuel pump for a specified amount of time and then measuring the amount of fuel that gets pumped in that period of time. This will tell you if you are pumping enough for your needs.

As you can see this test requires several bits of knowledge (Where is the Fuel pressure regulator and where do I disconnect from? What's an Air flow meter? How do I pinch off the lines?

There have been several links provided here that will help you start down the path to the truth of the 'Dub. Ohhhhhhmmmmmm......

This here is reckonin' time. Are you going to grab the reigns and tame this philly? Would you rather not have to bother with wrenchin/ and splattery fuel? Only you know where this road will take you.

Take your time. Look through the info. Focus on one issue/task at a time at first. Soon enough you will be having an issue pop up and your mind will go through the list of systems that could be part of the problem and you will be planning your route to resolution.

Of course you must always begin with the basics: timing, point gap, valve lash adjustment, and absofreakinlutely no vacuum leaks.

Now stand tall soldier, you can face this beast, beer in one hand and 13mm combination wrench in the other!

[Scylla]

Thank you very much indeed, Gypsie. I will try what you suggest as soon as I am able.

At the risk of blathering too much, I feel compelled to admit that I thought bus ownership was going to be different. I honestly believed it was going to be a case of buying it and then simply heading off for a camping trip whenever we felt like it, in the same way that I get in my car to drive to work every day and fully expect it to start every time and never break down.

I know different now, and I realise rather sheepishly that ownership will require that I learn to maintain and nurture the beast myself; how could it be otherwise, with a 33 year old piece of machinery? I now understand that if I want to own and run a Type 2, as I always have done, this is what I have to do. For someone like me, who knows absolutely nothing about how things work, that is quite a daunting prospect. But I like it this way. I feel I'm learning something new and important, about buses but about something else too. I now love my bus even more than I did, even though he's a bit broken at the moment.

You mentioned the basics: timing, point gap, valve lash adjustment and vacuum. Today I found out what the distributor cap is and pulled it off to look at the points, and have read that if they are too close together it can cause problems. Where's the best place to educate myself about these basics? R Atwell's pages?

I have not been drinking tonight. But I am about to start.

[chitwnvw]

Where's the best place to educate myself about these basics? R Atwell's pages?

I recommend the Bentley.

I have not been drinking tonight. But I am about to start.

This is nearly compulsory for bus ownership.

[Randy in Maine]

If you go to the Ratwell page, he has a nice description of how a points system works (ironically from a Rover site if I recall correctly).

http://users.mrbean.net.au/~rover/ketterin.htm

Also this may be of interest.... http://www.type2.com/bartnik/timing.htm

If you were to buy the volt/ohm/dwell/tachometer meter adn the Bentley manual I suggested at the begining of this thread, you would be ready to go right about now.

Always have a spare set of points & condensor in your tool box also. You will sleep better at night.