1982 Vanagon - Fuel line & Filter Question

[Lanval]

When Colin was here, he was aghast at the state of my fuel line running from the tank to the square filter. It has now started seeping, and demands to be replaced. Before doing so, I have a couple of questions:

1) Fuel line size/type: What's on there currently is 1/2" fuel line (12.7mm) which seems too large. I've seen several online Vanagon vendors selling 8mm fuel line from BMW. Is this the correct size? Is there any reason not to go to my local BMW dealer and buy the fuel line there? Are there any other variables that I should know of/about?

2) Filter: I have a replacement fuel filter of the correct (square) type. Many of the later vanagons have a second, round, cannister-type filter after the pump, though mine (82 Vanagon, 2.0L Air-Cooled) does not have this. Should I add it in? Did the earlier type IV engines have them, or is it a CA regulation thing? What say ye experts?

Best,

Lanval

[Amskeptic]

When Colin was here, he was aghast

Indeed I was. The windshield. . . . . . . . . .

Bring a new square filter with you on your hunt for new hose. You need to use the 12mm (?) hose, you should know that it is low-pressure hose between the filter and tank. . . and filter and pump. After the pump, it must be reinforced. Do not install an additional filter if there isn't one there already (later water-cooled Vanagons have a big metal filter downstream of the pump ed.12-18-08). Mercedes I believe uses the same diameter on their earlier CIS injected cars. It's about quality, my boy, quality. . . and the ability to SEE it.
Colin

[JLT]

Colin, while you're at it, what's your recommendation on size and sources for the '71 buses? Is this something I can get in Sacramento without a lot of looking for it?

[Lanval]

Colin (and JLT),

What I ordered was the whole kit from Van-Cafe (seen here: http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_4 ... t_kit.html), and I was a bit confused. According to the explanation there is also 2 meters of 12mm line in addition to the 7mm high pressure line.

On the one hand, I assume that all gas lines from the firewall forward were done when the engine was rebuilt this spring, so I wasn't planning on doing all of them. On the other hand, Colin's expert eye pointed out enough problems with the work that was done that I'll be double checking, and replacing anything that looks hinky.

anything that doesn't get used will go under the seat for roadside repair.

As a side note, the Mazda mini-van broke a timing belt (I suspect...) last night, so I get to do the timing belt over Christmas "break" too. Luckily, the Mazda MPV (like the Volvo B230 engines) is a non-interference engine, so I didn't (maybe) destroy the engine.

I'll post some pix after I'm done for the master to check my work.

Thanks Colin and crew!

Best,

Lanval

Oh snap! Forgot to mention that I fixed the windshield washer last month. I can't get the passenger side to work though, and I'm wondering if there's an easy way to deal with unblocking it, or if I need to pull that puppy and replace....?

Geez, forget to clean your windshield for a couple of months, and Colin'll never let you hear the end of it... (sounds of mumbling disgust fading into the distance).

ML

[Amskeptic]

I ordered whole kit from Van-Cafe there is also 2 meters of 12mm line.

As it should have. Good. And good for them on the BMW hose. Finally. A company that sees things as I do. . .

the Mazda mini-van broke a timing belt.
Luckily, the Mazda MPV (like the Volvo B230 engines) is a non-interference engine, so I didn't (maybe) destroy the engine.

I had a similar moment with my dual overhead camshaft Lexus LS400 V8 engine when it just shut off dead in a snow storm on I-70. Thank God the Japanese not only had a non-interference engine, but also a sensible disassembly methodology on that dauntingly complex engine.

windshield washer can't get the passenger side to work

Did you rotate the little adjustable balls and clear out the jets with a safety pin? Cuz, if they're clear, you might be spraying washer fluid who-knows-where under the dash area.
Colin

[Lanval]

Colin,

Thankfully no. What happened was that I cleared out the little balls on both before firing it up. Both sides worked like crap, and then after a few minutes, the driver's side cleared something out, and started working OEM. The passenger side, however, must've broken something loose and clogged, because it went from minimal squirt to zero.

Alternatively, the hose broke or something. Why do I get the sense that I am about to have to pull apart the dash to fix/check this?

Best,

Lanval

[spiffy]

Colin, while you're at it, what's your recommendation on size and sources for the '71 buses? Is this something I can get in Sacramento without a lot of looking for it?

For some reason I remember 7 or 8mm. I had heard awhile ago that the german braided line was having issues. I hunted around and used FI line for my 67....better to over-engineer the fuel line. Some folks wire tie connection points together as well.

[Amskeptic]

Carbureted engines use 5mm. I change the hose out every three years, which is 100,000 miles for me. Do not, do not, do not over-tighten hose clamps. People who go nutso on clamps do not realize that they are making matters worse, particularly when they have to take the clamped hose off the carburetor. They'll twist and crank and break the brass free of the carburetor. Then they wonder why they burn their VW down with fresh hoses and clamps all over the place.
Colin

[airkooledchris]

Ive heard that the small plastic filters on our aircooled vanagon's are a bit on the cheap-o side, and that you can just swap in a fuel filter from a later model Vanagon into that same spot instead and have it last a lot longer.

I heard, too, there there may be a second filter after the fuel pump, but I never found one on mine (81) so perhaps its a CA only thing or just a myth.

[Amskeptic]

Ive heard that the small plastic filters on our aircooled vanagon's are a bit on the cheap-o side, and that you can just swap in a fuel filter from a later model Vanagon into that same spot instead and have it last a lot longer.

I heard, too, there there may be a second filter after the fuel pump, but I never found one on mine (81) so perhaps its a CA only thing or just a myth.

On the Digijet/fant water-cooled Vanagons there is the known-to-bay-bus owners square plastic pre-pump filters (made in Israel usually). There is also a big metal can filter AFTER the pump. Use them both. I would be leery of "upgrading" the earlier single filter systems.
Colin

[airkooledchris]

you use them both, meaning your bay came with a square one before the pump and nothing after it, but you kept the square plastic one before and added a metal style one after - upgrading the original design?

I was just gonna ditch the square plastic one in favor of using the metal canister style one *before* the pump.

leave the plastic one and add the metal, or would be be ok to just ditch the plastic for the metal one, since my 81 never had a filter after the pump?

spanks

[Lanval]

Chris and Co.,

As Colin says, the air-cooled vans (and therefore buses I would assume, though I need not since Colin has just confirmed that the buses also) had a single square filter before the pump. I have an 82 Federal model, and have seen an 81 Canadian model and 80 California model (vanagons all running the 2.0l air-cooled engine) and they all ran the single square filter before the pump only.

The placement of the filter before the pump in a single-filter system is no accident; the filter is there to save your pump ~ filters being cheaper than pumps, after all.

Don't ditch the first filter ~ that's the one that is keeping gas tank crud out of your spendy pump.

I'm unclear on why the second filter was added (or when) but I've seen them on water-cooled VW's only. On the one hand, I'd be leery of adding an extra link into the designed fuel delivery system; on the other hand it's hard to see how an extra filter could be a bad thing.

Colin ~ you know I trust your judgment, but I'm curious to know if you have any thoughts about why adding that later filter into the earlier Vanagon (or Bus, for that matter) fuel system might be a bad-ish idea?

(I ask, because I've contemplated this notion myself, but felt I lacked the technical knowledge to know whether I was trying to solve a non-existent problem by adding a new problem...)

Best,

Lanval

[vdubyah73]

I do run an after pump filter on my buggy, but not on my bus. An after pump filter would protect your injectors or carbs in the event that your pump starts shedding some shiny little particles of metal as it slowly self destructs.

I use cheap aftermarket electric pumps specified for an early Ford Courier pick up truck in my carb'ed buggy, I have found a filter full of shiny little slivers of metal in the after pump filter. That pump still works, although it's used now as a small transfer pump.

If you do install an after pump filter on an FI system, make sure it can handle the pressure the pump is capable of putting out. What's it 50ish PSI.

[Amskeptic]

The calibration of the injectors is an exacting science. I think (?) adding a resistance to the circuit in the form of this other filter would throw the injection map as designed for the single filter system. Over-filtering carbureted engines exacerbates vapor lock.

There is no need for us to get all dorky. Look at the number of FI engines that have given hundreds of thousands of miles of good service. Just maintain the car correctly! You'll do fine. If the tank is a nightmare, clean the tank!
Colin

[Lanval]

Colin,

I direct question if I may ~

Currently here's how the gas lines are set up (viewed from under the car ~ apparent output line is on the passenger side of the tank, moving back towards the firewall along the inside of the frame rail):

gas tank to filter = 12.7mm gas line
Square filter
filter to pump = looks like 12mm approx line
pump up to firewall = 7/8mm gas line

The problem I had today was the gas filter: I assumed that there should be 12mm line coming from the tank to the filter (as is currently the case with my van), but the filter CLEARLY is NOT meant for that size line.

On the intake side of the filter (side opposite the indicated direction of the flow arrow) the intake is too small for a 12mm line. The output side, however, fits 12mm perfectly.

I looked under my pal's van (80 calif. Vanagon) and his setup has the smaller fuel line coming from the tank, with a small section of 12mm line from the filter to the pump.

So is this correct: 7mm tank to filter, 12mm filter to pump, 7mm from pump onwards?

If so, will it matter if the 7mm hose I use is the BMW stuff that I got from Van Cafe? I'm assuming now that this is what you meant from the get-go, but I've been confused by the large fuel line currently in place.

Thanks,

Lanval