Water Injection?

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Sluggo
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Water Injection?

Post by Sluggo » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:06 pm

I'm probably very behind but I just heard of this today. Water Injection! Supposedly can be hooked up to any vehicle and increase mileage and performance. Not a product being sold but parts you can buy anywhere!

Has anyone heard of or tried this? More Bull$h!t?

The first link is the best.

Water Injection As A Liquid

Water Injection Wizardry

Mother Earth

Water Injection Systems

The Water Injection Miracle
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Amskeptic
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Re: Water Injection?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:33 pm

Sluggo wrote:Has anyone heard of or tried this? More Bull$h!t?
Water does help fuel mileage as it expands dramatically, like a steam engine might, in the cylinder. It cleans the carbon right the hell off the pistons and valves and cleans the oil off the cylinder walls too. Then engine go boom.
Colin
(ya think the auto companies would have happily used such a ubiquitous miracle substance before now?)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Sluggo
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Re: Water Injection?

Post by Sluggo » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:37 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Sluggo wrote:Has anyone heard of or tried this? More Bull$h!t?
Water does help fuel mileage as it expands dramatically, like a steam engine might, in the cylinder. It cleans the carbon right the hell off the pistons and valves and cleans the oil off the cylinder walls too. Then engine go boom.
Colin
(ya think the auto companies would have happily used such a ubiquitous miracle substance before now?)
There's got to be a way to keep oil on the cylinder walls. The link at the top has it done in a way that it runs through the PCV system. Would this add sufficient lubrication? Perhaps some type of fuel lubrication additive (Marvel Mystery Oil of some type)?

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1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

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RSorak 71Westy
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Post by RSorak 71Westy » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:25 pm

Water is most effective in engines that have a problem with pinging or detonation....There's no need to convert it to steam 1st.....
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Post by glasseye » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:33 am

In the last days of the "Big Recips", aircraft engines used water injection at takeoff to permit the extraction of the last few calories of energy from the fuel. The increase in power is valuable at that critical stage of flight, but the long-term effects on the engine and it's overall system complexity relegated water injection use to that brief period only.

My understanding is that the major benefit of water injection was the cooling effect resulting from the rapid vapourization of the water. This added cooling became unnecessary at cruise due to lower power requirements and cooler air aloft.

Colin's statement to the effect that "if it worked, all the manufacturers would be using it" is well taken. The same applies to a host of other snake oil remedies that are appearing. (yet again) You can't argue with stoichiometry. There ain't no free lunch.
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Post by Sluggo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:21 pm

DREAM CRUSHERS! :geek:
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

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dingo
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Post by dingo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:50 pm

i use a simple vacuum bubbler with 50%water 50% isopropyl..the engine loves it at idle...if i could figure out how to tap vacuum beyond idle..i would do that too. I also have a catch jar on the PCV hose to collect any excess moisture. Works well for me..but you will never know until you try it yourself

can send a pic if needed
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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Post by skin daddio » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:50 pm

dingo wrote:i use a simple vacuum bubbler with 50%water 50% isopropyl..the engine loves it at idle...if i could figure out how to tap vacuum beyond idle..i would do that too. I also have a catch jar on the PCV hose to collect any excess moisture. Works well for me..but you will never know until you try it yourself

can send a pic if needed
you what? photos.

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Post by LiveonJG » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:58 pm

skin daddio wrote:
dingo wrote:i use a simple vacuum bubbler with 50%water 50% isopropyl..the engine loves it at idle...if i could figure out how to tap vacuum beyond idle..i would do that too. I also have a catch jar on the PCV hose to collect any excess moisture. Works well for me..but you will never know until you try it yourself

can send a pic if needed
you what? photos.
That sounds like something called a Condensator that was being hawked a while back.

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dingo
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Post by dingo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:27 pm

No. A condensator is a device whereby gasoline from the fuel return-line is teed-off into a 3 ft section of copper tubing and ends up meeting the PVC at the catch jar. Gasoline is vaporised in the copper tube and additionally vaporised when it meets the hot crankcase vapors. Excess collects in the jar. I made my own and it actually works quite well. The gasoline has to be metered thru a valve....just enough not too much.
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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Post by LiveonJG » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:29 pm

You gotcha some pics?

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Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:34 pm

dingo wrote:No. A condensator is a device whereby gasoline from the fuel return-line is teed-off into a 3 ft section of copper tubing and ends up meeting the PVC at the catch jar. Gasoline is vaporised in the copper tube and additionally vaporised when it meets the hot crankcase vapors. Excess collects in the jar. I made my own and it actually works quite well. The gasoline has to be metered thru a valve....just enough not too much.
. . . . . what is your current fuel mileage?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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dingo
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Post by dingo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:01 pm

actually,sorry... i think you were right..the condensator was originally just the PCV jar...with BB pellets inside to trap and crack the oily vapors into combustible ones. Later versions added the gasoline bleed and copper coil...so many variations being hawked..hard to keep track.

Too many gizmos /additives attached to my engine to make any claims vis-a-vis mileage. Some things are easy enough to test for oneself...so all i can say is they are cheap and simple enough to try.

below: very simple version of bubbler. Rubber hose leads to manifold vacuum (blue thing is one-way valve). The other orifice is open to atmosphere (preferably with one-way valve to prevent evaporation. Fill bottle 3/4 or so. I have found that a single wide opening at the bottom of the green tube makes big messy bubbles.Lots of small pinhole bubbles makes better vapor.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59896002@N00/2669656637/

*If you filled the bottle with gasoline you could idle your engine on the vapor in the jar ALONE. Engines run on vapor not liquid.But gasoline evaporates quickly..and dangerous fumes..so i went with 50/50 water/Iso. Pure experiment
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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