replacing fuel line

whc03grady · Post by **whc03grady** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:28 pm

Not that it needs repeating, but there is a story on (ahem) another ACVW site about a guy whose Type 2 just burned up. Of course I am aware of the dangers of driving around with incorrect/old fuel lines, and my filter isn't in the engine compartment.
But I'm human (that is, I am lazy and stupid and a gambler), and when I had my engine out last, I didn't replace all the fuel lines, just the ones from tank to filter, from filter to pump, and from pump to carb. I didn't replace the filler neck, or those annoying little pieces on those annoying metal lines that zigzag and loop all over the place.
Am I driving on borrowed time?
And a related question, can the gas tank be removed, for real, with the engine in (carb off of course)? Or is it really so much of a PITA that the combined job of engine removal + fuel tank removal is, in actuality, easier than fuel tank removal alone? (Seems wildly counterintuitive to me, but what do I know?)

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:57 pm

Pulling an engine is more a pita than it is difficult. I think stripping an engine while installed would be friggin difficult. I'll pull an engine just to repaint the tin. Not so experienced with typeIV in a bus yet, only done it 3 or 4 times. But a clutch in a type 1 I can do in an afternoon with a couple coffee breaks. Pulling an engine will familiarize you with it and working in an engine while it sits on a atv jack is so easy. Maybe I'm just to old for all the contortions needed to work on it installed.

Oh yeah, with the engine out, the hard to reach vapor lines are so much easier to reach. Not sure you could even do the fuel fill hose and pipe with it in.

Bill

covelo · Post by **covelo** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:24 pm

The hardest part of the engine drop (IMO) is the mating. If you're not going to work on the engine itself, you can just drop it a little to facilitate the fuel tank removal. However, it would all be much easier with the engine compartment empty, if not because the engine is in the way but also so that you can sit in the engine compartment while futzing with the tank and all those criss-cross vapor lines.

P.S. don't forget the one behind the spare tire well.

mattg · Post by **mattg** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:28 am

I read that story. Sad story. It makes me a little more paranoid of that sort of thing - from what I know that bus was in good mechanical condition. I wonder what could of happened?

whc03grady · Post by **whc03grady** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:09 am

Thanks for the responses so far, guys.
I've taken the engine (and transaxle) out myself before, but re-installation was, whaddayacall, a complete nightmare. That's why I'm wary to do it again, if I needn't (plus I've only got a curbside now as opposed to my old carport).
Like I said, I did replace all the fuel line that has gas running through it, but not the filler neck or all those vapor lines. Just how important is the integrity of those vapor lines, in the grand scheme of things? And the filler neck only has gas running through it while you're filling up, so a little care taken at the pump (i.e., no overfilling) should alleviate some fear as to its fragility (right?).
I mean, is the replacement of each and every single last inch of fuel line--esp. those vapor lines and all the stuff around the tank--so pressing all by itself as to warrant an engine removal? Or is it just something to take care of next time the engine comes out for some other reason?
(I realize that these posts might come across with the tone of, "Just tell me what I want to hear: that my fuel lines are fine and nothing bad will ever ever happen because I didn't replace all of them", but I really am looking for the brutal truth, not niceties.)

vwlover77 · Post by **vwlover77** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:06 am

The real risk for fire comes when hot parts get gas spilled or sprayed on them (big issue for FI engines), or enough vapors collect that an errant spark ignites them.

That said, the evaporative fuel lines behind the fuel tank firewall are probably unlikely to cause a fire, even if gas is sloshing out of a rotted one on top of the tank.

BUT, there are a few of those in the engine compartment too, and they should be replaced for sure.

HOWEVER, accessing or pulling the tank after lowering the engine slightly is EASY and a lot less time-consuming than dropping the engine. Working in there with the engine in place was not nearly as bad as I expected.

See this thread: http://itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=1722

LeeE · Post by **LeeE** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:26 pm

Hi
78 Westf2LFI
I just replaced the fuel pump & regulator in my bus & bypassed the cold start. Got a new CSV but said hey I won't need it until November.
Of course while camping last weekend lows were 40; it didn't want to start for a while Easter Sunday AM.
Slow resurrection.?
Tonight I replaced the CSV and the plugs/wires/cap/rotor, put everthing back together and started it.
Ran great , I almost just shut it off and left it as "good job"
But I always check, grabbed a flashlight, everything was OK until I saw the line to the 1/2 fuel rail spraying gas...
No presence of mind at all! I had 2 extinguishers within 10 ft to choose from and a battery shut-off right there at hand, but I ran to the front to turn the key off.
Discovered that one of the FI line clamps was loose so I tightened it, thinking that should do it.
I "fired" it up. Worse leaks, both sides of the little rubber line!!!
Replaced the fuel line and the clamps. No leaks now.

It sure did scare me. I just replaced ALL my fuel lines about a year ago, less than 6K miles driving since then. That line didn't even look bad after I removed it, no cracks at the ends or anything.

It was too close to my house & garage, and the neighbors too. If a fire had started, who knows what could have happened?
Everything has alway looked good in the engine room. Apparently just moving the metal fuel line around enough to do the CSV caused this big leak.

Just lucky I guess.

LeeE

Post by **Amskeptic** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:55 am

whc03grady wrote: Am I driving on borrowed time?

Any fuel line from the tank to the engine compartment must be addressed pre-emptively.
Vapor lines behind the bulkhead, you can be less paranoid about, they will get stinky when they leak and they usually are noticeable after over-filling the tank or after a hard corner. I have all the original hoses on my tank. The only part I have had to replace in the vapor recovery system is the rubber tee at the charcoal tank connection.
The filler hose is easy enough to check through the black round pie tin. Replacing hoses at the gask tank is easy enough by just dropping the engine and transaxle as a unit about a foot and pulling the bulkhead. Pull the alternator harness from the voltage regulator and check your engine wiring as you lower the engine.
Colin

mattg · Post by **mattg** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:51 am

anyone have any idea as to how long before changing your fuel lines. Does it depend on the amount of mileage driven? I know that some people change their lines every year. I am thinking that I need to change my fuel lines pretty soon but they look ok and are the correct high pressure FI hose so Im not sure what to do but I certainly dont want to take the chance. Fire scares me and is making me more paranoid than I already am.

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:54 am

Yes, change them and use the correct rubber coated high pressure fuel line and FI hose clamps. GermanSupply has both!

vwlover77 · Post by **vwlover77** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:58 am

I would think the major contributor to the deterioration of the lines would be heat. So, yes, I would tie changing the lines to mileage (and of course periodic inspection of the lines).

Having said that, the question would be how many miles is appropriate? I would venture to say that with modern materials, 50,000 miles would be plenty on the safe side.

What do the rest of you think?

mattg · Post by **mattg** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:29 am

Im just curious as I have only put about 5K miles on it since I bought it a few years ago. The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner and new fuel lines were put on. I just do not know how old they are but they visibly appear to be fine. I wish I would of known what questions to ask but of course at that point I had bus fever and wanted one though I didnt have a clue as to what I was getting into.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:19 am

mattg wrote:Im just curious as I have only put about 5K miles on it since I bought it a few years ago. The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner and new fuel lines were put on. I just do not know how old they are but they visibly appear to be fine. I wish I would of known what questions to ask but of course at that point I had bus fever and wanted one though I didnt have a clue as to what I was getting into.

Other than your visual inspection (no cracks or abrasions), you want to perform a pliability inspection. If the hose is easily pinchable and springs back into shape like a nice young hose should, then you're good. If it feels rock-hard or mushy tatty, replace. . . cuz as everybody knows, if you are too brittle, you are not nearly adaptive enough, and if you are too mushy, you will earn no respect.
Colin

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:27 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
mattg wrote:Im just curious as I have only put about 5K miles on it since I bought it a few years ago. The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner and new fuel lines were put on. I just do not know how old they are but they visibly appear to be fine. I wish I would of known what questions to ask but of course at that point I had bus fever and wanted one though I didnt have a clue as to what I was getting into.
Other than your visual inspection (no cracks or abrasions), you want to perform a pliability inspection. If the hose is easily pinchable and springs back into shape like a nice young hose should, then you're good. If it feels rock-hard or mushy tatty, replace. . . cuz as everybody knows, if you are too brittle, you are not nearly adaptive enough, and if you are too mushy, you will earn no respect.
Colin

Colin please forgive me for this one

but that was so Colinesck

btw working on my own language for the inbetween proper and cyper-aceptable. xoxo<old school>Barb

Velokid1 · Post by **Velokid1** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:26 am

Simple advice from a simple man who has taken a complete gasoline shower in the past: drain the tank first.

That was, what Colin? 7 months ago or so? And I'm still high from it.

Greg

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