Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Carbs & F.I.

Moderators: Amskeptic, Sluggo

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by hambone » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:16 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

I am back fresh from the driveway to report that the hole is indeed there. The carb throat is very clean too; it is a new carb.
There is a chance that the engine sat for a while and the carb is just gummed up. Right? It was pulled from a wrecked Beetle, I'm guessing less than 10k miles.
When I first got the bus, it idled ok. Then I saw that the cutoff solenoid was loose (!) tightened it and then lost my idle with the 009. And the rest is madness. This carb seems to want more air.
I've never seen a carb 1/2 adjust, usually if they are gummy the adjustments won't do squat. Nor have I seen an adjustment change overnight! Should I blast the hell out of it with Gumout, or does that sound like a waste of time? Otherwise I'll have to rebuild it, and if it still doesn't work I haven't solved anything.
This is what I need, $200:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1715786
Oy.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by hambone » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:19 am

I have another, identical dirty carb that I will rebuild today. At least the bus is running/driving now, albeit not up to snuff. I don't have the cash for a new carb at present.
Image
Thanks for all the encouragement, it's nice to have someone to talk to. I think I'm going loopy from working alone too much. That, and "life events". Hooray!
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:26 pm

hambone wrote: Thanks for all the encouragement, it's nice to have someone to talk to.
I think I'm going loopy from working alone too much.
That, and "life events". Hooray!
Over here in Georgia, same thing different zipcode.

There is no reason I can think of that a nice German Solex carburetor cannot be made to work flawlessly on a properly built and tuned engine. New carbs, however, have often brought new variables . . .
Colin
(if you have any German carburetors that you have given up on, save them for me and we can do a test drive with them using Chloethecow as a mule)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by asiab3 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:32 pm

Amskeptic wrote:New carbs, however, have often brought new variables . . .
This is my thought as well.

Bob, if you have a few weeks to wait, I'll send the German Solex that works with that distributor over for a test drive. Do you have a vacuum gauge, tachometer, and dynamic timing light? It would be nice to find out why this is.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by hambone » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:56 pm

Hey quit sendin me stuff! If all life had this problem.
I have a Mexican Bocar 34pict3 now soaking. The spring has eaten 1/2 way thru the throttle arm! JB Weld?
The only German carb I have these days is a 30pict3 from Bookwus, I think a Keifernet rebuild. Waiting for the right moment to install it somewhere.
BTW the check balls were all shiny and rattly I left 'em be.
How long to soak? I'd say a couple days. I should rebuild the "new" carb too, at least I'll know. I think the float is off, hills change the idle (or "idle" in this case).
You know, I really have had good luck with the Brazil Solexes over the years. They last a long time and are reliable. Nowadays who knows...
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
dingo
IAC Addict!
Location: oregon - calif
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by dingo » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:59 pm

If youre at burnout stage, i find the 30/31s to be more forgiving and flexible. I havent given up on the 34s yet..but tommorow we will try and get the best one of the bucketload to run adequately on a very strong and rocksolid dual port. If it fails, then im going to use it as a projectile to silence that damn crow overhead that wont shut up
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by asiab3 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:07 pm

hambone wrote:The only German carb I have these days is a 30pict3 from Bookwus, I think a Keifernet rebuild. Waiting for the right moment to install it somewhere.
If you have a vacuum-only distributor, like a 205T or 205M, then you're set! Unfortunately this carb is awesome but not suited for the DVDA. Hang on to that beauty for any single port bus you have. (The manifold sizes are different too. The H30/31 and 34pict3 share the "large" manifold size, and the 30pict and 28pict carbs share the "small" manifold size.)

I like diagnosing as much as anyone, but my offer still stands if you would like to try the carb that was paired for that distributor from VW in 1971. I do need that one back eventually, however…

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by asiab3 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:09 pm

dingo wrote:If youre at burnout stage, i find the 30/31s to be more forgiving and flexible. I havent given up on the 34s yet..but tommorow we will try and get the best one of the bucketload to run adequately on a very strong and rocksolid dual port. If it fails, then im going to use it as a projectile to silence that damn crow overhead that wont shut up
The two carbs have vastly different vacuum signatures. The distributor you run will need to be accounted for. I advocate using the EMPI-clone carbs for bird hunting.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by hambone » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:49 am

I have run the 30/31 with the offset plate on a dual port, it seems fine. But everyone seems to bitch about the loss of HP so I thought I'd do it with the correct carb. Who knew? But the 34s seem to be popular as anchors etc. People have trouble dialing them in...maybe the aftermarket + 009. I do have a spare 205M distributor lying around too.
Well my current 34 wouldn't run with any distributor so it's kind of irrelevant.
This is all very humbling!
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:30 pm

hambone wrote:I have run the 30/31 with the offset plate on a dual port, it seems fine. But everyone seems to bitch about the loss of HP so I thought I'd do it with the correct carb. Who knew? But the 34s seem to be popular as anchors etc. People have trouble dialing them in...maybe the aftermarket + 009. I do have a spare 205M distributor lying around too.
Well my current 34 wouldn't run with any distributor so it's kind of irrelevant.
This is all very humbling!
Awww, that is because you are still young and fresh and have enough native self-esteem to be humbled in the first place. Hang in there! Some day, self-esteem will be just a distant memory, and you will find living with that hollowed-eyed joyless abject crushed humiliation is its very own reward. I am grateful that I can still tie my shoes all by myself. So yeah, I have to take my engine out again.
Colin :blackeye:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
dingo
IAC Addict!
Location: oregon - calif
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by dingo » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:34 am

Well the crow initially avoided the fate of 34 pict projectile...it turns out the 34 MUST have functioning, non-leaking retard 5atdc..it idled well and the progression was adequate. The advance side was, in this case, weird , due to non-stock cam providing different vacuum signals at rpm...so that side of things will have to be compromised....but the 34 stood up to the test and was dialed in with no problems. Unfortunately tho, i had to 'eat crow'..so the bird did not make it after all
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by hambone » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:04 pm

It is nice we both had the same experience. Weird even. Installed the rebuilt 34, eventually got it to run right. But only without the retard can, even with the new carb I could only get 600 RPM at idle. But with the advance side connected it runs so much better than the old carb - quiet and much cooler. Still some hard starts but I'm still foolin with the mixture it seems to be close. Too bad about the retard but I'm glad to be done with another variable. I'm also able to time it at 30deg. now.
The OTHER carb: guess what goopy varnish in the bowl + gritty grains of whoknowswhat. Otherwise sparkling clean, maybe 5k miles on it? This is indeed a low mileage engine hope I didn't ruin it. Oh and the float level was 22mm (from the fuel line up), I'll call it a 1mm deviation from the 19.5 +/-1mm. That would cause flooding issues wouldn't it, if the valve is closing too late? And I'll bet the grit caused my randomness after carb adjustments.
ONE thing I have noticed while fiddling with the 34: the carb adjustments seem to have a delay - it isn't immediate like the earlier Solexes. Adjust it, but first you have to drive around the block etc. and come home. The settings may or may not have changed. It is interesting.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by hambone » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:16 pm

A couple days later, no more hard starts. Runs like a bus now. Carb + retard was the issue. No comment.
Thank you all for puttin up with this, it really helped. Never trust a pretty Solex.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
wcfvw69
Old School!
Status: Offline

Re: Issues with Type1 Dual Port - Idle

Post by wcfvw69 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:01 pm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185095

This is a great thread on Solex carbs and which distributors they came with when new. As it illustrates, there were several versions of the PICT 34-3 carb. My experiences with them is that the 34-3 HATES the 009 distributor unless you like off idle flat spots. There's ton's of threads on this carb and the different alterations made to them so they play well with different SVDA distributors. The 71 dual port bus came with the 205Q distributor with the dual retard/advance vacuum can. From what I've read over the years, it's the ideal partner for the 34-3 with the correct flange number. I see NOS vacuum cans for the 205Q distributors frequently though they are pricey at around$100 each.

You mentioned that your carb was rebuilt. Did Volkzbiz do it? He's known to be very good at tweaking the 34-3 to work with most of the current distributors w/vacuum cans. I'm actually running a 30/31 carb on my 1776 bus with an original, German 009 mechanical only distributor. My understanding is the H30/31 is a copy of the original Solex 31pict3, which was not installed on VW's in the US. I think the engine runs beautifully. I'm know the carb is just a touch small (smaller venture) vs. the 34-3 but I'm not sure I'd really notice a difference if I put a 34-3 and the correct distributor for it.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

Post Reply