1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

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fredg
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1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by fredg » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:32 pm

Hi!
I'm the FNG de-jour.

My 71 Kombi w/ upright 1600 DP came with a pict 34-3 and a 50 cent round air filter. I'd like to use an oil bath filter from a 66 T1 1300. Is this air filter going to be too restrictive?

Why a little oil bath?

I have one.
I find them endearing.
There is a 1'' inlet for pre-heat.
There is room to add a 2nd 1/2" inlet so I can run both the charcoal canister and the oil breather lines into it.

I have a mid 70's - rod actuated pre heat - T2 filter I could set up but it is big, ugly, and requires parts I do not possess.

I have a few extra 1/2 hose barbs, a cool old junction box, and am prone to overkill. On a stock 1600 is there any advantage to adding breather tubes to the valve covers?


Thank you!

Fred

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asiab3
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by asiab3 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:31 pm

fredg wrote:My 71 Kombi w/ upright 1600 DP came with a pict 34-3 and a 50 cent round air filter. I'd like to use an oil bath filter from a 66 T1 1300. Is this air filter going to be too restrictive?
I do not know, but it might be worthwhile to compare the flow characteristics, or at least passage sizes, on it versus the stock 1600 air cleaners.
Why a little oil bath?
I have one.
I have three spare correct 1600 oil baths. Where are you located? You can have one if you come pick it up.
I have a mid 70's - rod actuated pre heat - T2 filter I could set up but it is big, ugly, and requires parts I do not possess.
Pictures? What year is it off of? There was a minute change almost every year from '68 to at least '74.
On a stock 1600 is there any advantage to adding breather tubes to the valve covers?
The stock breathing system is perfectly adequate, but once you change one part all bets are off. With a stock 1600 with stock breathing system, there is no issue. But bolt on one chrome something-or-other and all bets could be off. Some have said larger engines need the breathing room, but I do not know first hand. (For those reading and more interested, don't ever vent the sides of the valve covers; always vent up. Did you know the rocker box areas on a T1 engine can fill more than halfway up with oil during high RPM running? There's a quick "top end lubrication" system waiting to suck the oil out of your engine....)

Enjoy the simplicity and reliability of a time-tested 1600 VW engine.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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SlowLane
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by SlowLane » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:06 pm

I'm with Robbie. Source a year-correct oil-bath filter and snorkel for your Kombi. It will love you for it (or at least, you can convince yourself that an inanimate object you have an irrational attachment to is capable of reciprocating your feelings).

Update: just saw this on the SF-Bay Craigslist: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/pts/5033072185.html

As far as rocker-cover vents go, read this article by Len Hoffman about some experiments he and Jake Raby performed on performance-oriented Type IV engines. Their results are non-intuitive, but make sense once you read their explanations.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom."
- Terry Pratchett

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:47 am

A critical gift provided by the stock oil bath air cleaner is the bob-weight + flap in the air cleaner snorkel.
That IS the positive crankcase ventilation metering system. That bob-weight makes the engine have to suck through the oil breather hose a bit. That bob-weight is why a stock engine throws less oil out the slinger and remains drier than chrome crap air filters,
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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fredg
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by fredg » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:48 pm

The T2 oil bath is the cable actuated type from another year than 71. Will the old T1 (round bellows) type thermostat and a motorcycle brake cable work?

Thank you for the links!

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by wcfvw69 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:18 pm

fredg wrote:The T2 oil bath is the cable actuated type from another year than 71. Will the old T1 (round bellows) type thermostat and a motorcycle brake cable work?

Thank you for the links!
Are you trying to hook up your oil bath preheat flap on a 68-70 T2 bus? If so, you need a Bowden cable with a little spring on it. They aren't sold new but you can find them used occasionally. Yes, you can hook a bicycle brake cable and sheeth to make it work. Do you have the flaps in the shroud with the correct lever to hook the cable too?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by fredg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:11 pm

I have not pulled the shroud to see if my flaps are there.

So, you are saying is the flapper on the 1970 oil bath air cleaner is operated via a cable hooked to the flaps which are activated by the round bellows like thermostat.

The 1966 T1 oil bath flapper is counter weighted. Could I just counterweight the flap on the 1970 T2 cleaner?

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by wcfvw69 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:43 pm

The bob-weight and flaps and the pre-heat lever in the oil bath are two different things. Read Colin's description of the bob-weight flap in this thread already. The preheat flap in the oil bath is actuated by the Bowden cable that connects to the flaps in the fan shroud. What it does is divert only the pre-heated air when the engine is cold to the carb. This helps the cold start drivability. When the thermostat that's bolted to the engine under cylinders one and two opens the flaps in the fan shroud as the engine warms, the Bowden cable will pull the pre-heat flap in the oil bath closed so it only draws in non-heated air.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by asiab3 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:26 pm

wcfvw69 wrote:The bob-weight and flaps and the pre-heat lever in the oil bath are two different things. Read Colin's description of the bob-weight flap in this thread already. The preheat flap in the oil bath is actuated by the Bowden cable that connects to the flaps in the fan shroud. What it does is divert only the pre-heated air when the engine is cold to the carb. This helps the cold start drivability. When the thermostat that's bolted to the engine under cylinders one and two opens the flaps in the fan shroud as the engine warms, the Bowden cable will pull the pre-heat flap in the oil bath closed so it only draws in non-heated air.
All well and good, but I think the earlier (split window) buses had a bob weight for their preheat too, so faster intake air speeds would run cool air and slower intake speeds would run preheated air.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by fredg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:31 pm

asiab3 wrote: All well and good, but I think the earlier (split window) buses had a bob weight for their preheat too, so faster intake air speeds would run cool air and slower intake speeds would run preheated air.
Exactly. I'm assuming the flaps in the shroud are long gone. So, I am wondering if I can add a bob weight to the preheat flapper on my 1970 bus air cleaner.

What would be the problem with just wiring it open? Some pre-heat is more than I'm getting now....

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:02 pm

fredg wrote:
asiab3 wrote: All well and good, but I think the earlier (split window) buses had a bob weight for their preheat too, so faster intake air speeds would run cool air and slower intake speeds would run preheated air.
Exactly. I'm assuming the flaps in the shroud are long gone. So, I am wondering if I can add a bob weight to the preheat flapper on my 1970 bus air cleaner.

What would be the problem with just wiring it open? Some pre-heat is more than I'm getting now....
Too much flap, flapper, flaps talk around here, we are cross-conversing.

Bob-weight and its air-cleaner flap is totally separate than any discussion of preheater flap or cooling flaps.

Do NOT add a bob-weight to the preheater flap on the 1970 bus air cleaner. Leave it alone for now.
You need to verify that you have the preheater duct under the rear tin, you need to see if you have cooling flaps, and I doubt that you have a 1970 and before set of cooling flaps that has a little lever to run the preheater flap. Dual port engines have independent air cleaner-mounted thermostats dedicated to preheater valve only. Leave the 1970 air cleaner alone.

Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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fredg
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by fredg » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:30 am

Didn't mean to cause a flap.
I apologize for my ignorance of and being flapped over part names and engineering specific to my 71. With so many changes over the years of a tweaky - cooling, heating, pre-heating, and vapor collection system no wonder the parts got tossed.

Are there any pictures or schematics of the 1971 systems available?

So I am now on the market for a correct air cleaner with attached thermostat and preheater duct for inside the tin for a Kombi built 7/71.
I will most likely need a set of flaps and mechanism for inside the shroud.

Thank you all,
Fred

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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:00 am

fredg wrote:Didn't mean to cause a flap.
I apologize for my ignorance of and being flapped over part names and engineering specific to my 71. With so many changes over the years of a tweaky - cooling, heating, pre-heating, and vapor collection system no wonder the parts got tossed.

Are there any pictures or schematics of the 1971 systems available?

So I am now on the market for a correct air cleaner with attached thermostat and preheater duct for inside the tin for a Kombi built 7/71.
I will most likely need a set of flaps and mechanism for inside the shroud.

Thank you all,
Fred

Image

This image may not last long, but it is a '71 with attached thermostat.

Preheater duct is nestled between the right exchanger and the case:

Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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fredg
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by fredg » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:10 am

Thank you! Those are worth a thousand words, maybe two.

I'm almost on the road!

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Amskeptic
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:59 am

fredg wrote:Thank you! Those are worth a thousand words, maybe two.

I'm almost on the road!
Pictures and itinerary . . .
ColinOrItAin'tReallyHappening
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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