Generator Woes

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hambone
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Location: Portland, Ore.
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:56 am

There is a strange deep vibration now at around 2800 RPM. Nothing stuck in the fan. Generator charges ok etc. Something out of balance? Fan? I was very careful with reassembly.
FWIW the fan was replaced when the engine was built.
NOW what? Man I hate getting stumped. I also dislike wasting my time, it was a long day yesterday.

Edit: checked timing, way off. Must have bumped the distributor. Runs well & plenty of power but the vibration is still there, mainly at 30 mph. It's like a deep pulsing rhythmic sound.
Maybe I should just drive it for a few days and see if things settle down. Components can get irritated when disturbed.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:37 pm

I drove it all over town today, still the same deal.
Here's a thought: the stepped keyed spacer that the fan rests on was very stuck on the old generator. I foolishly used vicegrips, and marred the squared cylindrical surface. I took a small file to the marks, and the fan fit well. I wonder if I upset some delicate balance?
This thing: http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewpr ... 13&cartid=
The only other thing I can think of is I slighty bent a bit of the FRONT backing plate, but that wouldn't affect spinning balance.
I wonder if I should replace the fan? Not sure what country of origin it is...maybe it's been a problem all along.
http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Stock_f ... 31boem.htm

The vibration seems pretty bad and must be dealt with. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:49 am

I THINK I fixed it....
Replaced the belt, and reseated the generator pulley. The belt, Continental Germany and only 2 years old is already drying out and cracking. When flexed backwards, it wants to crack like a tired old belt. Maybe it sat on the shelf for many years.
Perhaps the pulley was slightly askew. I noticed one of the not-used shims wasn't seated properly on the pulley behind the nut - it was slightly off center.
Who knows, but I'm keeping the fingers crossed. So far the weird bass hum is gone.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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Amskeptic
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:57 pm

hambone wrote:I THINK I fixed it....
Replaced the belt, and reseated the generator pulley. The belt, Continental Germany and only 2 years old is already drying out and cracking. When flexed backwards, it wants to crack like a tired old belt. Maybe it sat on the shelf for many years.
Perhaps the pulley was slightly askew. I noticed one of the not-used shims wasn't seated properly on the pulley behind the nut - it was slightly off center.
Who knows, but I'm keeping the fingers crossed. So far the weird bass hum is gone.
I'm just watching your self-healing process unfold.
These fans and generators and pulleys all work mighty hard in a Type 1 engine, with rpms that are not found your average lazy V8. Balance is uber-critical and worthy of respect. Check for fan run-out the next time the belt is off, just see if you can feel variation between the opening of the fan housing and the side of the fan. If it wobbles, it's bent, and balance is likely compromised.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:43 pm

It's irritating. I'm broke and the bus is my lifeline outa this jernt. But it keeps reminding me of all the things I don't know.
Honestly I think the unbalanced pressure plate I'm using needs to be rotated to find the sweet spot. That sounds like insanity.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:43 pm

Colin, didn't you have this problem with that new generator on Chloe? I wonder if they need a "break in". They both came from Ashley.
Well it stopped way back then and hasn't returned.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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Amskeptic
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:02 pm

hambone wrote:Colin, didn't you have this problem with that new generator on Chloe? I wonder if they need a "break in". They both came from Ashley.
Well it stopped way back then and hasn't returned.
Hello Hambone.

Yes, you were there when Ashley sold me a cast iron front pulley half designed specifically for high rpm bus operation. I do believe it is the superior pulley. You need to check for run-out of pulley, and especially check for a belt that goes through a period of tightening and loosening as you rotate the engine. This would tell you alignment and pulley depth are all FUBARed. I tapped the rear pulley with a hammer to get it to rotate with no wobble. It sort of helped the belt tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen, but I cannot get it consistent, these engines have been subjected to too many people.

I am NOT happy with my "floating rear bearing" still. I will contact Ashley to provide me a generator with a known pressed bearing at both ends. No more bs. I found the receipt, $137.00.
I think you bought it September 22.

Please double and triple check things like:
*slop between shaft and pulley and key (new key for sure)
*generator/stand alignment, there is fore and aft movement available to line up pulleys
*crankshaft pulley run-out
*absofriggenlootely get rid of as many shims as possible between the pulley halves, you get rid of rear pulley half wobble and improve cooling'
ColinLoveThisLoyalLittleChloeEngineRightNow
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:04 pm

Hi. My generator is now in pieces, guess what. I have that same weird floating bearing retainer. Well at least I can replace 1 bearing...
What a pain after all of that work.
That vibration never really went away. Took me all of these years to finally deal with it!
Now this new welded balanced fan has a slight wobble....
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:11 pm

hambone wrote:Hi. My generator is now in pieces, guess what. I have that same weird floating bearing retainer. Well at least I can replace 1 bearing...
What a pain after all of that work.
That vibration never really went away. Took me all of these years to finally deal with it!
Now this new welded balanced fan has a slight wobble....
But . . . it is balanced, right? A balanced assembly with a little run-out is supposed to be OK.
If you look dead-on to the generator shaft and rotate it, you should not see any wobble at the seating surfaces for the fan hub and the pulley, though you might see a little at the very center of the shaft.

Chloe's floater crimpy bearing shim has been docile now for several tens of thousands of miles, but I do have a used generator end plate with oem bearing securely pressed in waiting on-deck. I am realizing that I can run out my clock with these cars.
Colin :shaking2:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:57 pm

I think the fan hub spacer is out of whack. The whole damn fan is wobbling. Drove 1 hour today for an Empi fan nut kit but it doesn't fit right. It has a weird raised hub where those notched washers are supposed to ride. Pushes the fan way too far from the backing plate. Very, very frustrating not to mention time wasted. I found out just now that the 38a hub is different. Never too late to learn.
Tried to true the old one but it is just too screwed up.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by asiab3 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:33 pm

Damn, sorry to hear about your troubles Hambone. I had FIERCE fan/generator vibration at 3,000-3,500 rpm this week after an engine overhaul. Nothing cured it, except loosening the generator strap and just snugging it up, no tightening it more than necessary. Smoother than before at freeway speeds now… There is also some smoothness to be had with making sure the fore/aft alignment of the pulleys is spot on. I have not checked my generator for bearing shims, but it was NOS from Bosch Germany. Boy wouldn't that be something if the shim was an actual Bosch repair!

Yes, there are three hubs that I know of: 30a doghouse, 30a non-doghouse, and 38a.

Good luck!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:16 am

asiab3 wrote:Damn, sorry to hear about your troubles Hambone. I had FIERCE fan/generator vibration at 3,000-3,500 rpm this week after an engine overhaul. Nothing cured it, except loosening the generator strap and just snugging it up, no tightening it more than necessary. Smoother than before at freeway speeds now… There is also some smoothness to be had with making sure the fore/aft alignment of the pulleys is spot on. I have not checked my generator for bearing shims, but it was NOS from Bosch Germany. Boy wouldn't that be something if the shim was an actual Bosch repair!

Yes, there are three hubs that I know of: 30a doghouse, 30a non-doghouse, and 38a.

Good luck!
Robbie
Chloe's generator gets vibration if there are more than three shims between the pulley halves. With no shims at all between the pulley halves, it is quite smooth. With seven, it is quite terrible.
How did your engine run across the country? Do you gaze upon it differently, like less pure virginal and more, you know, around the block?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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hambone
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Location: Portland, Ore.
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:11 pm

Found the hub, 10 bucks and no wobble. Let me see about that fan now.
The pulley side bearing was smeared with Permatex 3H, I wiped it off, hope the bearing will stay in place now.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by asiab3 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:20 pm

Amskeptic wrote:How did your engine run across the country? Do you gaze upon it differently, like less pure virginal and more, you know, around the block?
It ran quite well, with a $0 repair bill until the lifter "happened."

To avoid sidetracking the thread anymore, I will leave it at this comparison. Buddy is that gal you meet in the corner of the party and instantly hit it off with. Pure connection, with an "attractive-enough" appearance, she exudes confidence and fun, preferring to get out of bed early to watch the sunrise over the mountain instead of having perfect makeup and curls in her hair. So what if s/he's not a BobD supermodel. S/he has been around a few blocks. But with a personality like that, nobody can care.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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hambone
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Re: Generator Woes

Post by hambone » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:48 pm

Hello, Huston Control. Space Ranger Hambone reporting in.
Well...I think I fixed it. No more funny business, all quiet back there. Also installed a Bookwus gifted 30pict3 German Solex, took me a fun while in the darkening downpour trying to adjust the carb that would only die. Clicked the solenoid a couple of times and it suddenly idled well after a restart. Still needs a little futzing but it is mostly together and much quieter. Robbie, where can you get those solenoids? I remember you mentioning it's a rare part, it would be good to have an extra one on hand. Too bad to wear out a good German carb but it's doing no good sitting on the shelf.
I had a truly hilarious moment, almost all together and ready to start. But the cap wouldn't reach the distributor. Yes, I had trapped a wire beneath the fan shroud, making me remove the thermostat etc. all over again. I am surely the first one in VW history to have done so.
Installed a BERU wire from a set Hal gave me years ago. They are stiff and bendy, almost like house wiring. They seem high quality though. What is the deal? Did ignition wires used to be stiff before the silicone Bosch days? I am tempted to just replace the set. BURU, you don't hear much about them these days.
A real test drive tomorrow, fingers crossed. Glad you guys are still out there, the Portland mechanicking crowd isn't as tight as it used to be, mostly me alone in the shop and when I come across weird shit I get nervous. The old fan hub did have a slight wobble from my apparent Gorilla-ing in 2011. Ashley at Always VW saved my butt again, but he was grumpy today so I didn't have the heart to give him a hard time about the generator and its unremovable bearing. "Enjoy your ride" he tells me as I walk back out into the bleakest rainiest November and I harumffff like no tomorrow.
P.S. I have 5 shims between the pulleys. But I am missing a few from upstairs I am afraid to say. Crucial shims.
OM MANI PADME HUM written on the inside of the fan, spinning a million times like a Tibetan prayer wheel.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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