Starter Issues

[ruckman101]

Curious. After driving from Portland to Lincoln City via Tillamook with many a stop, after paying for my McMenimans IPA, Bertha bus wouldn't start. The battery kicks the starter, but it fails to turn over the engine. Fortunately I was parked on an incline and put it in reverse for a bump start, which it did, and ran fine.

Off to Safeway to buy some food and such, and again, starter won't turn over the engine. Oil level is fine, temp is fine, engine turns over by hand no problem, so, again, put it in gear and bump start, because I of course parked on a bit of a slope for that very reason.

Voltage at the battery is 12.6 volts. Is that normal? I'm suspecting I might have some corroded, comprimised wiring at the starter, and will crawl under once home to check.

Let me know if I'm on the right track or missing something obvious.


thanks,
neal

[midatlanticys]

The battery kicks the starter, but it fails to turn over the engine. . . . . I'm suspecting I might have some corroded, comprimised wiring at the starter.

quite possibly - or maybe the carbon brushes are worn and/or the commutator on the starter motor need a good cleaning or a hot start relay is missing?
The + cable connections from battery terminal to the starter lug need to be all bright & shiney as well as the engine negative ground strap. Try these:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... 51&start=0 for hot start relay or
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wire ... _03_01.htm
and
http://type2.com/bartnik/starter.htm for starter circuit trouble shooting

good luck Neal!!

[ruckman101]

Let me clarify, that when I turn the key, I don't get nothing at all, I can hear the starter getting juice from the battery, but nothing else. Something is binding up.

Crawling under to take a look in the morn.

It may be related to a bit of rough road taken too fast, rattled enough that the back shelf propped in place without fasteners collapsed, and that was the drive that then found myself facing the issue after a short stop. No issue or hint of issue before. Still original wiring, re: hot start relay, none.



neal

[Hippie]

So it "clacks" but w/n spin? Just a clack and then quiet....right?

That could be wiring to the starter, or the solenoid itself lost its internal electrical contact that's supposed to make the circuit to the actual starter motor after the solenoid engages all the way in.

[Westy78]

Have you tried giving the solenoid a good whack with the handle of a screwdriver?

[airkooledchris]

what he said. I used to get that sometimes and a little smack on the back of the solenoid and then it would crank again no problem.

the downside being that you may have to start doing it more and more often, but at least you'll have a way to get it started and know whats going to fail next.

[JLT]

Have you tried giving the solenoid a good whack with the handle of a screwdriver?

If you use a screwdriver that's big enough and heavy enough, and do it once or twice, sometimes it's enough to just show the screwdriver to the solenoid and then say "Remember last time?"

But, seriously, my trip would be to jump the contacts on the solenoid and see if you can get the solenoid to engage. If it fails that test, it's probably the solenoid. If it passes, look for wiring issues.

For the record, I just replaced the starter and solenoid on George, and still had problems. Since the remote" starter switch I installed in the engine compartment never failed to start the car, I installed a hot-start relay to the ignition switch. No problems since then (knock on wood). I hear that the problem is very often in the ignition switch itself, but that's not a bridge I want to cross anytime soon.

[hambone]

Yeah it sounds like the solenoid. A klassic hot engine issue. Well at least it's an easy fix, but dirty.

[ruckman101]

Well, everything looks fine and dandy, and maybe I just lack the skill, but whacking at the solenoid has done nothing so far.

Very odd.

Jump the contacts on the starter, or the solenoid?



neal

[midatlanticys]

Jump the contacts on the starter, or the solenoid?l

near the bottom here: http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wire ... _03_01.htm
*Simply take a 6" length of medium gauge wire and strip both ends. Touch one end to the push-on terminal located on the solenoid and the other to the positive battery cable.*. . . . but be aware you are moving a lot of amps = sparks/arcing. Note; jumper wire is MEDIUM gauge for a reason.

[dtrumbo]

Since no one has offered the standard disclaimer when the suggestion of jumping the starter comes up, I'll put it forth.

Please make sure your vehicle is in neutral and the parking brake set prior to starting the vehicle from any location other than the driver's seat.

Thanks, back to the show.

[ruckman101]

Thanks so much, and standard disclaimer duly noted and appreciated.

So, when I jump the solenoid, if it behaves as it does now, the solenoid could very well be the culprit, however if it connects and the starter spins the engine, the issue is the wiring somewhere between battery and ignition switch, that a hot start relay could remedy, or attention to all the connections returning them to bright and shiny clean metal.

Si?


neal

[LiveonJG]

A hot start relay is just a bandaid. Sounds to me like it's time to replace the starter. Or crawl under and use a pair of insulated pliers, until you're ready.

-John

[dtrumbo]

Si?


neal

Si. Do the clean and shiny thing as your first step, then move on to other remedies as needed.

[Hippie]

A hot start relay is just a bandaid. Sounds to me like it's time to replace the starter...
-John

Hope this isn't hijacking, but I always figured it was the ignition switches that got weak.
Replacing the starter really fix these hot start problems when a relay can "fix" it too?