'60 Bug Won't Start After Stopping

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:40 pm

Here we go for another electrical problem. I have a 1960 bug. I have been driving it for a few days, but yesterday was a new problem. I noticed that it was running rough, popping, and undulating power after it warmed up. I would say it happened after about 4 miles of driving. Anyway, the real problem was when I tried to start it again. I got nothing. I had noticed that the blinkers were working at a slower rate before I turned the car off. The battery is fairly new and it held a charge fine at last test. I waited until today about 24 hours after this happened. I did not charge the battery or even touch a single wire and the thing started right up with lots of battery power. I took it for a ride. Eventually the blinkers did the same thing and all the electrical was dimming. I could not start it again so I jumped it and it started right up. I have a brand new alternator in it so my question is what the heck is happening. Everything was just fine one day ago. All of the wiring is fine. The battery is clearly being drained when the car is running, but it fully recovers when left for about 24 hours. This defies my thinking about electrical problems. The alternator seems to be able to keep the car running, but the lights are dimmer and the turn signals are slower. I would think that the problem with the engine running rough and popping is related to the electrical problems, but I can't figure out how. The coil? I don't know.

RSorak 71Westy · Post by **RSorak 71Westy** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:57 pm

Sounds like the alternator is not working properly. It's normal for a battery to come back after sitting. Do you have a volt meter? What is the voltage across the battery with the engine running? It should be above 14 if the alternator is working right.

zabo · Post by **zabo** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:30 am

It's been converted to 12 volts?

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:02 am

The whole system has been converted to 12v. I don't have a volt meter to test the alternator. That seems to be the most logical cause. Could there be any connection between the alternator and the issue with the engine popping and sputtering? I can't make that connection.

dtrumbo · Post by **dtrumbo** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:48 am

Jays60rag wrote:Could there be any connection between the alternator and the issue with the engine popping and sputtering? I can't make that connection.

My guess is if the alternator isn't doing anything, eventually the battery will discharge to the point that there isn't enough voltage for the coil to make a good spark.

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:33 pm

I used a volt meter and the battery was at 12.09 sitting still. I tried to start my bug and it got one crank and the battery was dead. The volt meter then read 11.29 or so. I suspect that this battery was never being charged by the alternator. If so, it lasted quite a long time. I was looking through past postings and I noticed something that said the generator light in the speedometer was necessary for the regulator to function. I don't know if it is true, but I have never hooked that light up to the alternator. The alternator is brand new with the internal regulator. Is the connection to the generator light in the speedo absolutely necessary for the alternator to work properly? If this is the case then I will have found my problem. I will also have learned another lesson. Those VW engineers were not idiots. Every goofy thing on these cars is necessary in some way. Who'da thunk?

dtrumbo · Post by **dtrumbo** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:05 am

Jays60rag wrote:Is the connection to the generator light in the speedo absolutely necessary for the alternator to work properly?

Yes it is. You can prove this to yourself by starting the car as it is now and measure the battery voltage with the car running. Then measure it again with the 'G' wire hooked up and see the difference.

RSorak 71Westy · Post by **RSorak 71Westy** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:50 am

Sounds like you've found the problem!

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:33 pm

Problem Solved! That is so nice to say. Thank you all for your help. I hooked up the generator light on the speedometer. It turns out that I had something else wired incorrectly. Everything works now. The battery reads 12.42 volts sitting and 13.89 volts running. This is a battery that was stone dead just minutes ago. I think that is a good improvement. Best of all, I have restored my confidence in this car. I will now feel safe driving more than a few blocks from home.

RSorak 71Westy · Post by **RSorak 71Westy** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:36 pm

Once the battery gets charged it'll read over 14 running, and a least 12.3 after sitting for a while.

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:08 pm

Oops, I spoke too soon. I took it for a drive and when I got back, the generator light no longer comes on. I can't find the problem. There is juice at the socket, the bulb is fine, and the oil light works when I test it in place of the generator light. The alternator is getting power. I don't know how to test for function of the regulator in the alternator. This is now a new mystery. What could have gone wrong?

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:17 pm

One last tidbit to amuse everyone. I posted earlier that the generator light worked until I drove the car. Then it did not work. I checked and tested all connections. There was nothing wrong. Here is the kicker. I used a volt meter to test the battery and I got 12.72 volts standing still, 13.78 volts at an idle, and step on gas a tiny bit and I get 14.21 volts. The alternator is clearly working. The light clearly does not. The bulb is ok and the connection is being made properly to complete the circuit, but the light does not come on when I turn the key. I have succumbed to the old saying "if it aint broke don't try to fix it". I can't figure out what is wrong anyhow. There is ironic logic in this. The light goes out when the alternator is working. I just assume that my alternator is always working even when the car is not running. That is a bit of a joke, but that is what the situation is telling me. I always surmised that there would be a day when I just have to take that leap of faith and put some trust into the vehicle that I have spent so many hundreds of hours working on. That time is now. The generator light does not work, but everything works. Go figure.

dtrumbo · Post by **dtrumbo** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:26 am

The only thing I can think of at this point is to make sure your regulator is grounded good. This is usually accomplished by its physical connection to the vehicle. Make sure it's good and tight.

This is tough since we don't know how it's wired. I'm using a late bay bus diagram for reference, but there's no reason to believe that whomever did the conversion on your bug used the same method as VW did on a '78 bus. I certainly understand your "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory, but I'd sure try to get your light to work properly. It's there for a reason and, if nothing else, will tell you when your alternator belt has broken and your cooling fan isn't spinning anymore.

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:16 pm

Power flows from the fuse panel to the instrument panel, out of the instrument panel, through the alternator idiot light, to the alternator. With the key in the on position, engine not running, the alternator is the ground, causing the light to come on. Once the engine is started, this power flowing from the instrument panel to the alternator is what excited the field to allow the alternator to begin charging. Once the alternator starts charging, power flows back up the wire to the idiot light, now there is + current coming into the light from both sides of the circuit. The light goes out because there is no ground. Don't know what fuse it is, barely understand it myself. Study the schematic and scratch yer head alot, that's how I figured out what was going on with my bus.

Jays60rag · Post by **Jays60rag** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:23 pm

Scratch my head is all that I can do on this. I have tested this forward, backward, sideways, and to the moon. I can't find anything wrong. The alternator is even working perfectly. This totally defies the inherent design of the electrical system. I just can't figure it out. I can't stand that something is not working properly, but everything is working, if that makes any sense. This is specifically a VW problem. I don't know any other cars that would drive me this crazy. For now I am hoping to forget all about this light problem. Maybe some day it will just magically start working just as it mysteriously stopped working.

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'60 Bug Won't Start After Stopping

'60 Bug Won't Start After Stopping