Fiber Washer & Shims For Distributor

[Jr. Buser]

O.k., I got the distributor taken apart, noting that there is a delicate fiber washer in the bottom of the distributor can sandwiched between 2 shims. Somehow, I still managed to break it. My local VW parts store (Vee Village) has never heard of such a thing. It doesn't look good for the home team.

I have searched the internet for the part and located a possible number for the parts kit [Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 00]. However, there is no mention of said fiber washer.

I'll start calling Ca. later today, but if anybody knows of where to get the shim kit and most specifically the fiber washer, I would be most appreciative.

Brett

[Amskeptic]

O.k., I got the distributor taken apart, noting that there is a delicate fiber washer in the bottom of the distributor can sandwiched between 2 shims. Somehow, I still managed to break it. My local VW parts store (Vee Village) has never heard of such a thing. It doesn't look good for the home team.

I have searched the internet for the part and located a possible number for the parts kit [Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 00]. However, there is no mention of said fiber washer.

I'll start calling Ca. later today, but if anybody knows of where to get the shim kit and most specifically the fiber washer, I would be most appreciative.

Brett

Though I am sure there is a good reason for said fiber washer, I have substituted it with just another similar-dimensioned metal washer with no ill effect. I would put a light coating of moly grease on both sides of the replacement washer. Over time, engine oil will wash it out, but in the meantime you will help it polish to a nice low-friction finish. These washers are merely absorbing thrust loads, I think (I think. . .) the fiber aspect to the washer is utilized for its ability to hold oil.
Colinshootingfromthehip
Colin

[MConverse]

Check out http://www.glenn-ring.com/ He rebuilds and sells Bosch distributors.

[vdubyah73]

Check out your local hardware store. Mine has fiber washers in the nut and bolt aisle. You might find something that will work.

Bill

[Jr. Buser]

Check out http://www.glenn-ring.com/ He rebuilds and sells Bosch distributors.

Thanks, that's how I knew about the fiber washer in the first place. I still managed to break it. I've never seen anything so brittle before, it was almost powdered.

Check out your local hardware store. Mine has fiber washers in the nut and bolt aisle. You might find something that will work.

Bill

Hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a shot. Thanks

These washers are merely absorbing thrust loads, I think (I think. . .) the fiber aspect to the washer is utilized for its ability to hold oil.

Is it possible that the fiber washer acts as a non friction point between the top and bottom spacer, thus preventing the two metal spacers or shims from rubbing on each other when the shaft spins? Just a thought.

Brett

[Amskeptic]

Is it possible that the fiber washer acts as a non friction point between the top and bottom spacer, thus preventing the two metal spacers or shims from rubbing on each other when the shaft spins? Just a thought.

At maximum rpm, the speed differential between the stationary distributor shoulder and the shaft is 2,700 rpm, with one washer, the differential drops to 1,350 rpm. With two washers, the differential is split amongst three surfaces to 900 rpm well within oil's ability to maintain a film. The fiber washer. . . . . who do we ask? I want to know the real engineering reason.
Colin?

[Jr. Buser]

Update:

I exchanged a few e-mails with Glenn Ring and he is sending me an assortment of shims, three fiber washers and a new piece of felt. They are from an older kit, but I should be able to use them.

One more question regarding shims. At the bottom of the distributor between the drive gear and the bottom of the distributor can, there are 2 wide or what I would call "standard" shims. Sandwiched between them is a very narrow shim which is also very thin. I was curious if this was to place more pressure against the base and provide an extra seal. Any takers on guessing this little guy's purpose?

Thanks

Brett

[Amskeptic]

At the bottom of the distributor between the drive gear and the bottom of the distributor can, there are 2 wide or what I would call "standard" shims. Sandwiched between them is a very narrow shim which is also very thin. I was curious if this was to place more pressure against the base and provide an extra seal. Any takers on guessing this little guy's purpose?

See above: RPM differential.
The brass gear's interaction with the distributor pinion is almost a worm gear. These things are subject to thrust loads much more than two gear teeth directly across from each other. You see that little spring down in the hole? Many people think that spring is pushing up against the distributor drive dog with the shims you mention. In fact, it is pushing down against the distributor drive shaft to make sure that the brass gear can't shove the drive shaft upward as it swipes each tooth on the drive shaft pinion. The drive dog at the base of the distributor is taking that spring's compression as is the bottom of the distributor drive shaft which also has a couple of washers. All of these washers are absorbing quite a bit of thrust and the oil that meanders in from splash lubrication needs to have a nice mellow "shear speed" or things'll burn up.
Colin

[Jr. Buser]

See above: RPM differential.
The drive dog at the base of the distributor is taking that spring's compression as is the bottom of the distributor drive shaft which also has a couple of washers. All of these washers are absorbing quite a bit of thrust and the oil that meanders in from splash lubrication needs to have a nice mellow "shear speed" or things'll burn up.
Colin

http://cid-fb012bc3eaa12e65.spaces.live ... fault.aspx

I have seriously under-estimated the shear strength and durability of a tiny shim .12 mm thick. I had no idea.

As for re-assembly, I only found one fiber washer at the bottom of the inside of the distributor can. Upon re-inspection of the dirt/gunk that came out of the distributor, I found what appears to be the minute remnants of another fiber washer. Seeing as how parts are almost impossible to find and I have no parts breakdown, does anybody have any idea if there is a fiber shim/washer on the bottom of the distributor, as well as the inside of the can?

Thanks again.

Brett

[Amskeptic]

I have seriously under-estimated the shear strength and durability of a tiny shim .12 mm thick.
...does anybody have any idea if there is a fiber shim/washer on the bottom of the distributor, as well as the inside of the can?

Materials science is cool stuff. When you look at bending moments, tensile strength, compression resistance, shear strength, and look at the little parts that do such big things, like wheel bearing rollers, it is a big part of why I like car mechanics and participating in the care of parts that do amazing things.

When you say "inside of the can" I think you are talking about the inside of the body of the distributor. The only reference to "can" in regards to distributors that I am aware of is "vacuum can."

I remember a fiber shim in the middle of the washers that serve as thrust washers between the bottom of the distributor and the drive lug. I sort of recall other fiber washers used under the centrifugal weight pivots to keep them slightly above the drive plate. Other than that, maybe another set-up between the upper shaft and the lower shaft on centrifugal advance distributors. I used metal replacements when I did my distributor in September 1993. Still working.
Colin

[Jr. Buser]

I only had 3 metal shims between the bottom of the distributor and the drive lug. 2 regular shims and the tiny 14.55 mm wide and .12mm thick shim that was sandwiched between it. According to the gentleman who rebuilds the distributors, the fiber washer acts as an oil seal. I just want to make sure I have shims in the right place.
Thanks

Brett

[Jr. Buser]

Update:

I received the shim kit from Glenn and was able to purchase the actual rebuild kit from Bosch. Bosch was no help on shim placement and could have cared less when I spoke with Tim on the phone.

The distributor is completely re-assembled. It feels pretty smooth, and seems to turn easier than before with less play. Once I remove and refinish the fuel tank, I will put it all back together and give it a try.

Thanks to all for the help and comments.

[honeybus]

See above: RPM differential.
The brass gear's interaction with the distributor pinion is almost a worm gear. These things are subject to thrust loads much more than two gear teeth directly across from each other. You see that little spring down in the hole? Many people think that spring is pushing up against the distributor drive dog with the shims you mention. In fact, it is pushing down against the distributor drive shaft to make sure that the brass gear can't shove the drive shaft upward as it swipes each tooth on the drive shaft pinion. The drive dog at the base of the distributor is taking that spring's compression as is the bottom of the distributor drive shaft which also has a couple of washers. All of these washers are absorbing quite a bit of thrust and the oil that meanders in from splash lubrication needs to have a nice mellow "shear speed" or things'll burn up.
Colin

Colin,

I have a 022 905 205S distributor for my '78 type IV resurrection, but I don't have that spring.

I intend to order the 'distributor drive pinion spacer' 021 105 235 and the 'distributor O-Ring' 111 905 261 from Bus depot, and I would like to order the 'spring', but I don't have a part number for the spring.

Can you help? Do you know the part number, or it's availability?

Many thanks.

[So sorry about your loss. The '73 was a beautiful {station wagon¿}]


Barry Burneskis
'78 Westy

[Amskeptic]

I intend to order the 'distributor drive pinion spacer' 021 105 235 and the 'distributor O-Ring' 111 905 261 from Bus depot, and I would like to order the 'spring', but I don't have a part number for the spring.
Can you help? Do you know the part number, or it's availability?

[So sorry about your loss. The '73 was a beautiful {station wagon¿}]

It's been a long time, Barry. I have no better luck at finding little springs like that than you, Mid-America sells the whole gear, washers and spring for $49.99 #309-518 Type 1 engine only, but the spring is transferable.
I would junkyard hunt that one . . .
Colin
(I miss that car's spirit of let's go)

[honeybus]

I intend to order the 'distributor drive pinion spacer' 021 105 235 and the 'distributor O-Ring' 111 905 261 from Bus depot, and I would like to order the 'spring', but I don't have a part number for the spring.

Can you help? Do you know the part number, or it's avaiability?

[So sorry about your loss. The '73 was a beautiful {station wagon¿}]

Mid-America sells the whole gear, washers and spring for $49.99 #309-518 Type 1 engine only, but the spring is transferable.


I would junkyard hunt that one . . .

Colin
(I miss that car's spirit of let's go)

Thanks!!

So, if I show the 205S distributor to a type 1 mechanic, and I point to the bottom of the distributor and ask for a spring that goes there, the type 1 mechanic would know what I am searching for, and probably be able to pull one out of his stash!?!

I have the Buggy Man (Lorton, Virginia) just 2 miles from my house, and he has come through in the past.

I have another related problem (potentially) but let me post to the appropriate forum.

Barry Burneskis