Itinerant Air-Cooled

Hi all - I tried to find an existing thread but no luck.

My 1977 Westy is in need of a new starter, and looking around there is a HUGE range of prices. My question is this - is it necessary to spend the big bucks, or are the repro stock ones ok? I'm in Canada, so ordering from the US is a bit of a pain (especially given our weak dollar) so would prefer to find one in canada..

Also, do ALL 1977 buses have 091 transmissions? Do I need to get one that specifically says "for 091 transmissions"?

thanks and happy Labour Day (or Labor Day, as the case may be) :)

77_Bus_Girl wrote:Hi all - I tried to find an existing thread but no luck.

My 1977 Westy is in need of a new starter, and looking around there is a HUGE range of prices. My question is this - is it necessary to spend the big bucks, or are the repro stock ones ok? I'm in Canada, so ordering from the US is a bit of a pain (especially given our weak dollar) so would prefer to find one in canada..

Also, do ALL 1977 buses have 091 transmissions? Do I need to get one that specifically says "for 091 transmissions"?

thanks and happy Labour Day (or Labor Day, as the case may be) :)

Most unfortunately, we have to warn you against most "rebuilt" starters sold by local parts houses.
You do need to be careful to get the correct starter for that transaxle, as the late model flywheels were bigger than the previous ones, and the starter has to clear the teeth and engage to full depth.

Most starters seem to get replaced because they refuse to activate when the engine is hot. This is a problem inside the solenoid where extremely delicate copper windings break down over time. The rebuilt units often just re-use the solenoids and slap on some pretty paint. Make sure everyone is on the same page as far as warranty / return policies if you decide to roll the dice.
Colin

Thanks!

Pretty sure it's not the hot start issue, as it sometimes (too often) clunks when I turn the key regardless of hot or cold. seems almost random. When it does engage it starts really quickly.
How do I know which is the right model for my transaxle?

I prefer to have the starter I already own rebuilt by a good local starter/generator/alternator builder guy.

Ask around for a reference at the local VW club or Hot Rod shop. They will know who is good and who is not.

Randy in Maine wrote:I prefer to have the starter I already own rebuilt by a good local starter/generator/alternator builder guy.

Ask around for a reference at the local VW club or Hot Rod shop. They will know who is good and who is not.

This is what I always do. I don't trust anything sold at local Napa's, AutoZone's, etc.. Most of those starters, generators and Alternators are rebuilt in Mexico or other country. The quality of the "rebuild" leaves a lot to be desired.

I have a local place that rebuilds my starters and generators. They do great work and I've never had problem.

If you go with one of the FLAPS, they should be able to tell you which starter is correct. I have had a Napa rebuild for about a year, and so far so good...

I will strongly caution against buying from RockAuto. I still have one of theirs that mangled my flywheel with its incorrect drive gear. They refused to take it back without so many fees that it wasn't worth while.

hmm. ok. I think my neighbour has a discount at Lordco - are they OK?

If NORMALLY (ie when the starter works) I have no issue starting (easy to start) do I need to worry about getting a super expensive one? I just want reliable, I don't care if it 'starts faster' as long as it starts!

It seems like I remember GoWesty selling some variety of high torque starter, if you are so inclined. I personally would not find that worthwhile, at least not in my current climate. Somewhere colder, the extra oomph may be necessary.

In general, I think a quality rebuild is the only way. I am on my 3rd or 4th from OReilly's ~ last time I took one in, they gave me a very hard time, despite their "lifetime warranty". My current one is going on two years old, but I have occasional no starts. There are two options, I think, and the first/best has already been given to you: find a good local shop with an old-timer (or willing to learn/work young-timer) and have it rebuilt.

Otherwise you can get aftermarket starters that are better quality. Here's the one for my Rat van: http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1 ... le-mt.html

I have the luxury of an excellent VW resource (and you do too, if you need it ~ http://interstateusedparts.com/) and one of these days I'm going to go get a used one and rebuild it myself with the available kits. I want to see if I can.

Rebuilt it is! The one that's in there honestly looks original (we did take it apart and clean it up and that helped a bit but it's pretty worn)

Now... anyone from Vancouver BC and can recommend a rebuild shop? :)

oh! and about what should it cost to rebuild?

Lanval wrote:In general, I think a quality rebuild is the only way. I am on my 3rd or 4th from OReilly's ~ last time I took one in, they gave me a very hard time, despite their "lifetime warranty". My current one is going on two years old, but I have occasional no starts. There are two options, I think, and the first/best has already been given to you: find a good local shop with an old-timer (or willing to learn/work young-timer) and have it rebuilt.

I was bequeathed a box of air-cooled starters of mixed vintages yesterday. I will learn/work and maybe have a starter or two to show for it. Would anybody be interested in a visually annotated play-by-play?

After all, I did a Honda Accord starter in a taco shop parking lot last year and it worked for six months before the guy moved away...

Anybody else here rebuild their own?
Robbie

oh! yes! a play-by-play!

asiab3 wrote: Anybody else here rebuild their own?
Robbie

Yes. Long ago. Had a devil of a time with the screws holding the solenoid to the starter, and the long through-screws and the brushes on the end plate gave me a fight when they needed to be retracted to allow the commutator to slide into position. Nowadays, I expect more fragility, more deterioration of the paper insulators, more likelihood of solder joint failures as you try to wrest free the end cap. But have fun.
Colin

http://www.busdepot.com/31073

Most of those failed units can be repaired by simply swapping out the solenoid with a new replacement unit from Bosch.

airkooledchris wrote:http://www.busdepot.com/31073

(Some) of those failed units can be repaired by simply swapping out the solenoid with a new replacement unit from Bosch.

When hot start is the issue, yes. Others have worn brushes/bushings, and commutators.
Colin