possible bad ignition switch

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cegammel
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by cegammel » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:19 pm

Bleh...I was hoping. Well...I would probably clean or replace that spade connector, then track down the other end in Bentley and check the continuity. Weird for a fuse to be intermittent, but push on them anyway... The other guys here will have much better suggestions. Colin hates parts replacement, but a spare starter to swap in is really nice to have around...

mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:19 pm

and howthehell do you get the wiring plug back into the ignition switch in the column? My 63 year old neck can't stay in position twisted right and looking back up and holding a flashlight.

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Amskeptic
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:23 pm

mentalQtip wrote:and howthehell do you get the wiring plug back into the ignition switch in the column? My 63 year old neck can't stay in position twisted right and looking back up and holding a flashlight.
Don't look ya old goat. Just stick it up there while you are standing outside the car. First take a quick comfortable look with wiring out of the way, note the orientation, make the terminal match it, plug it in.

You have family members who can help plug it in.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:00 pm

Ok then. With new switch attached to wiring plug and daughter turning screwdriver I checked for power at the push on at the starter using a test light. No light at all. Seems there is no juice coming from the switch to the starter.
New switch and no voltage at the push on at the starter means short in wire? Starter spins when shorted with screwdriver.
Next tried turning the switch to start with the pushon ignition wire totally free from the solenoid. Is it normal that the idiot lights still to out? Sounds even more like a short?

kreemoweet
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by kreemoweet » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:01 am

mentalQtip wrote: . . . no voltage at the push on at the starter means short in wire?
No, it means there's an "open" in the wire. Or the wire is connected to something else rather than its rightful location. Wiring diagram sez the starter wire
from ignition switch connects at an 8-way connector, and thence rearward to starter. Should be easy to find a big ole connector like that, and see if the connection
is good.

But really, I think you should immediately track down and correct electrical anomalies as you find them - in this case the idiot lights going out when the ig. switch
is turned to the Start position. This should not happen. It's fairly normal for them to dim somewhat when actually cranking, but since there is no cranking going on,
and no big current draw, there should be no voltage drop to make them dim. It sounds like the idiot lights are somehow being powered by the "X" circuit from the
ignition switch, instead of the 15 (ignition) circuit. The X terminal goes dead in the Start position, y'know. There may be other miswirings that
are at the root of the no-start problem.

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Amskeptic
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:16 am

kreemoweet wrote: It sounds like the idiot lights are somehow being powered by the "X" circuit from the
ignition switch, instead of the 15 (ignition) circuit. The X terminal goes dead in the Start position, y'know. There may be other miswirings that
are at the root of the no-start problem.
Excellent call!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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tristessa
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by tristessa » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:47 pm

Considering how hippie-hacked the wiring was when you got that thing, I'm surprised any of it works...
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mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:07 pm

Is there a diagnostic tree to figure out what changed from when it would crank and the idiot lights just dimmed, to not cranking and the idiot lights going comp;letely out?

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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:48 am

mentalQtip wrote:Is there a diagnostic tree to figure out what changed from when it would crank and the idiot lights just dimmed, to not cranking and the idiot lights going comp;letely out?
I would jumper the red 30 to the black 15 at the pulled ignition switch plug. Idiot lights should light.
Jumper the red 30 to the red/black 50. Starter should engage.

This verifies basic vehicle electrical integrity.

Then I would perform a continuity test of the ignition switch (no vehicle power present).

Continuity test 30 to 15 as you turn the switch to "on".
Continuity test 30 to 50 at start position.
Continuity test 30 to X with ignition on (should be a yes)
Continuity test 30 to X at start position (should be a no)
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:05 pm

Thanks Colin. The switch passed all tests clearly. When I jumped 30 red to 50 red black the engine turned over. The original switch and replacement switch when turned to start, nothing but idiot lights turning out.
I don't get it. Jumping 30 and 50 turned the engine. Doesn't the switch turning to start do the same thing?
And the original switch also?

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tristessa
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by tristessa » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:45 pm

"Replacement switch"

Is it a new switch, something you had in a coffee can on a shelf, one that came from a hulk in Trafton's back lot..?
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mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:39 pm

New, smarta**.

mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:01 pm

Tristessa. Thought you would appreciate this. Went home and straight to garage. Worked the 30 and 50 wires deeper into plug. Added the switch and with a screwdriver got it to crank for the first time.
Woooot!
I thought that would gladden you heart.

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tristessa
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by tristessa » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:59 am

yaay.

Now cram it back on the switch in the steering column, make sure the wires are pushed up and seated on the switch connectors and see what happens. Maybe enlist Caspian for the standing-on-your-head contortions.
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mentalQtip
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Re: possible bad ignition switch

Post by mentalQtip » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:47 pm

As it turns out the engine spins well, the idiot lights still go all the way out.

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