Charging woes

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appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:14 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

The thrill of victory! The agony of defeat...

Victory:

I can't believe it it, but I got everything reassembled. I reverse engineered everything I took apart, and it all went smoothly. I had to use those thick shims on the fan hub, because I think the hub is longer than others I've seen when searching around for examples. No rubbing when I had spun the fan, no rubbing when I spun it by hand in the fan shroud, and the alternator pulley lined up with the crankshaft pulley.

Defeat:

Of course the bus will not start. It tries to turn over, to no avail. I think fuel is getting to the carb (I can smell it). It cranks and cranks but never catches. So I don't know whether all of this this was for naught.

There was a mystery black wire that must of fell off of something as I was wrestling parts. I hooked up to the coil because it was long enough and angled in such a way that made me believe that's where it came off of. That might have been a mistake. On the first attempt to start-up, there was a noxious smell and that wire got hot to the touch. I removed it, and will need to trace it out of the firewall to see where it originates.

I'm going to step back and reassess. Could I have fried the coil? Would that even effect start-up?

If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Charging woes

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:24 am

appetite wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:14 pm
The thrill of victory! The agony of defeat...

Victory:

I can't believe it it, but I got everything reassembled. I reverse engineered everything I took apart, and it all went smoothly. I had to use those thick shims on the fan hub, because I think the hub is longer than others I've seen when searching around for examples. No rubbing when I had spun the fan, no rubbing when I spun it by hand in the fan shroud, and the alternator pulley lined up with the crankshaft pulley.

Defeat:

Of course the bus will not start. It tries to turn over, to no avail. I think fuel is getting to the carb (I can smell it). It cranks and cranks but never catches. So I don't know whether all of this this was for naught.

There was a mystery black wire that must of fell off of something as I was wrestling parts. I hooked up to the coil because it was long enough and angled in such a way that made me believe that's where it came off of. That might have been a mistake. On the first attempt to start-up, there was a noxious smell and that wire got hot to the touch. I removed it, and will need to trace it out of the firewall to see where it originates.

I'm going to step back and reassess. Could I have fried the coil? Would that even effect start-up?

If anyone has any ideas, let me know.
That might be the reverse light wire. It has to go to coil (+) 15.
Good Luck, must run to appointment!
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:06 pm

Thanks Colin. I'll check.

Is it possible to fry the coil by putting that wire on the wrong side?

If that's not the reason for its inability to start, perhaps since I had the carb off, do I need to prime it?

I'm not sure where to start...

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Amskeptic
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Re: Charging woes

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:00 am

appetite wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:06 pm
Thanks Colin. I'll check.

Is it possible to fry the coil by putting that wire on the wrong side?

If that's not the reason for its inability to start, perhaps since I had the carb off, do I need to prime it?

I'm not sure where to start...
Lots of things can get fried. But let's be optimistic and do just essential troubleshooting.

Check for spark. Spouse cranks engine for three seconds while you hold center wire from coil to distributor 1/4" away from metal surface. Spark? Yes?

Carefully! pour a little shot of gas directly into the carburetor (half shot glass quantity) and put the air cleaner elbow back on the carb! then immediately attempt a start with accelerator pedal depressed. Do you get a brief engine run? A complete engine run that now idles?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Thanks Colin.

I removed the wire from the center of the distributor, held it 1/4 inch from the metal clamp that holds the cap. Wife cranks for 3 seconds. No spark. Tried again at the vacuum canister. No spark.

I can smell the gas getting to the carb.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Charging woes

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:24 pm

appetite wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:40 pm
Thanks Colin.

I removed the wire from the center of the distributor, held it 1/4 inch from the metal clamp that holds the cap. Wife cranks for 3 seconds. No spark. Tried again at the vacuum canister. No spark.

I can smell the gas getting to the carb.

Pull black wire off (+) 15 coil terminal, the one that shares the harness with the oil pressure sender wire. You need to check for 12 volts with ignition on.
Yes? Inspect point gap for a .016" on the tip of the lobe. Yes to a good gap? File the points or replace them.
No? You may need to see what happened to black wire from ignition switch to coil.
Idiot lights turn on, yes? That means ignition switch is OK.
If no, experiment briefly with a hot wire from battery to (+) 15 on coil. Do it just to see if engine will run. It will not shut off until you pull the wire off the battery!

You'll get it figured out.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:53 pm

I think I got it!

The black wire that was dangling was to the ignition. I hooked it back up to the + side of the coil. Put everything back together again. Started right up!

So there's a whine:



It is high pitched. Nothing is rubbing as far as I can tell. Maybe I need to tighten the fan belt?

And the CHT gauge is no longer working. I'm not sure what's happening there. Diagnosis tomorrow.

But man, look at this!



Ch-ch-ch-charging! Mutlimeter reads 14.38 at the alternator post. I am beside myself with delight!

Thanks very much to all on this thread for sharing your knowledge. Thanks Colin for the very clear directions. Trying to track down a this charging issue and swapping out the alternator was definitely the biggest job I've tackled on my own with this bus. I appreciate everyone's help.

James

appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:04 pm

Oh shit! Oh shit!!!

I can't believe it. Short lived victory.

Took the bus on a 1/2 hour ride and long story short, when i returned, the fan belt was loose. When I took it off, I checked again to make sure the fan wasn't rubbing. Well, it was, because...the big nut that holds the fan to the assembly was loose! Not just loose, but loosen by hand loose.

Man, I had put an impact gun on that sucker. Wavy washer was placed with the wings facing the big nut. WTF?!?

OK. I'm going to take the whole thing apart again. At least I know the procedure the second time around. Will check the fan and hub for signs of stress or damage.

So close! And yet so far...

appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:04 pm

Don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but perhaps it will save someone else the hassle of making the mistakes I made on this project...

So instead of taking the whole alternator out again, I took off the nut and the washers and got a bright light and a mirror behind the fan shroud to check for stress and damage to the fan. It looked OK, as far as I could tell.

Tracing back my steps, I realize that when i put the impact gun on the nut initially, I must not have properly secure the pulley end. So the nut was on there tight, but not tight enough to withstand the velocity of high revs.

I got behind the fan shroud with the longest socket wrench I could find, stuck the 36mm socket on the nut, secured the pulley with a screwdriver and tightened the living hell out of that nut. Spun the assembly and there was no rubbing. Reconnected the belt and took it for a drive around the block.

So far so good.

kreemoweet
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Re: Charging woes

Post by kreemoweet » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:29 pm

appetite wrote: . . . impact gun . . .
Those things should NEVER be used to tighten fasteners. By hand, to the specified torque, is the way to go.

FYI, I would believe your multimeter rather than the VDO gauge. I have one just like it, and it reads 1.8 volts too low. That is more
than 20% of the scale range, which is unacceptable.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Charging woes

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:47 pm

appetite wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:04 pm
Don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but perhaps it will save someone else the hassle of making the mistakes I made on this project...

So instead of taking the whole alternator out again, I took off the nut and the washers and got a bright light and a mirror behind the fan shroud to check for stress and damage to the fan. It looked OK, as far as I could tell.

Tracing back my steps, I realize that when i put the impact gun on the nut initially, I must not have properly secure the pulley end. So the nut was on there tight, but not tight enough to withstand the velocity of high revs.

I got behind the fan shroud with the longest socket wrench I could find, stuck the 36mm socket on the nut, secured the pulley with a screwdriver and tightened the living hell out of that nut. Spun the assembly and there was no rubbing. Reconnected the belt and took it for a drive around the block.

So far so good.

Glad you resolved charging issue, glad you resolved the minor assembly glitch.
Is the whine less now that the fan is re-secured?
If you accidentally discover a loosened nut or bolt or screw, that does not allow you to go tighten the hell out of anything. It just means you re-torque to specification with extra-attentiveness. THEN, if it loosens again, you can disassemble and check for damage to the locking method (lock washers, serrated washers, LocTite, whatever).

Does it feel smooth when you rev it?
Keep the belt sort of easy taut >to > loose-ish. Your crap alternator bearings will thank you.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

appetite
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Re: Charging woes

Post by appetite » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:37 am

Thanks Colin and kreemoweet.

Yes it feels smooth when i rev. I'll check the tightness of the belt.

So far so good.

On to the next issue: shifting!

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Amskeptic
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Re: Charging woes

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:05 am

appetite wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:37 am
On to the next issue: shifting!
What? With your new transmission?
Colin
(see you in transaxle forum)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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