Disheartening.

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tristessa
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by tristessa » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:37 pm

ruckman101 wrote: the brackets the mustache bar mounts to do have room to adjust fore and aft a quarter inch or so, so I made sure the bolts and the mustache bar were fully forward.
ruckman101 wrote:It's F@@@@@@ worse.
.. move the brackets *back* a quarter inch or so?
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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:24 pm

It's worth a try. I've tried everything else I can think of.


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:25 am

ruckman101 wrote:It's crap like this that drives people to sell their VWs.

neal
Neal,
I agree with you. It is disheartening. I am also sticking with my original assessment that you have an internal issue that relates to the synchro assembly + potential bearing issue. I wish I had my scanner with me, and I could draw you a simple diagram of the likely issues.

Did you read my bearing plate installation in Chloe saga? That bearing plate is steel. It helps to keep the mainshaft from knocking back and forth. In the factory build, the bearing that holds the mainshaft is held by the soft magnesium nose cone housing. Over time, it gets hammered (like an engine crankcase), and the whole shaft can move just enough to help start throwing you out of gear.

The recommendation to look at mounts was mostly to catch some egregious *failure* that could shift the whole engine/transaxle fore and aft and throw it out of gear. But the factory engineering is pretty good. You have shift rails with detents. The detent grooves are under about 30 lbs of pressure from the spring and balls that hold it in position. You only have to be "somewhat near" gear engagement for the detent to spring the rail into exact alignment. In this detent-dictated position, the fork is held precisely between the grooves of the rapidly spinning synchronizer slider. It has to be thus (and this is why we do not hold our hand on the gearshift) to prevent wear.

So, how on Earth can little fore-and-aft movements of the engine/transaxle, or little movements of the stop plate adjustment affect the fact that your transmission is disengaging 4th gear on the other side of this detent (meaning that the *fork* is pushing the *rail* against 30# of detent far enough to take it out of gear)?? Wait! I'll tell you! The only way that the transmission can generate enough force to overcome the detent is if it is damaged, either inside the synchro assembly (keys, spring, teeth) or the entire input shaft is able to move back and forth too damn much because of a damaged bearing.

Now then, Personal Opinion:

I personally think that your rebuilder might have decided not to replace your Expensive Pinion Bearing, or did not replace your Important Input Shaft Bearing, or did not check the slider/synchro hub or did not control the critical clearances required. I think he is in a pickle because his gamble did not pay off, and he is loath to invest in the parts required to make it work properly. Have him drive the car. Note that if 1st gear holds, if 2nd gear holds, if 3rd gear holds, we can't blame the shift coupler or mounts. What kills 4th gear would also kill 2nd gear if those parts had anything to do with these symptoms. If you could not find 3rd gear or 4th gear, then we would possibly have to look inside the nose cone for worn bushings or damaged interlock/hockey stick ball, etc. But, if I have this right, you have only 4th gear popping out under load, right?

I do not know what to tell you as far as maintaining a working relationship with this rebuilder. You have exerted a lot of effort, you have paid your money in good faith, and you are owed a functional transmission.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:54 am

Yep, only fourth gear is the issue. The other three are not. And yes, as I told him, it the issue persisted, I wasn't going to be pulling the transaxle until after he had driven it. Relationship with Bret? Tenuous at this point, but not yet hostile. No harsh words from me. Haven't called him yet on latest issue, but did tell him I would call regardless to let him know. I will share your thoughts with him and like you suspect he's been working with "should be good" used parts to date. It will be up to him, I'm ready to give him the option now of returning my money, or getting it right. But I will let him offer that option and if offered, take it. As i said, I can swap the bell housing over to my original transaxle if need be. Probably call him Wednesday as today I have an orientation for a potential job to attend. I'll be driving a friend's Miata.

neal
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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:52 pm

All you can do is offer Colin's knowledge and let the guy drive the damned thing.
I'm really sorry to hear you have to go through all of this.
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tristessa
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by tristessa » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:27 pm

I'm pretty sure I've got a new-in-box 002 pinion bearing if it's needed. No idea where I got it, not certain offhand if it's that particular bearing, but it's definitely a big honkin' bearing with a part number starting in 002...
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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:30 pm

Thanks all. Still reeling. Just got back from a new employee orientation for Rhino Staging. I'm a stagehand. Got my first gig loading out the Cirque de Soleil show from the Expo Center this Sunday. And I learned the starter doesn't work real well if you don't tighten down the nut holding the wires snug to their terminal.

The engine feels fantastic, on a positive note.


neal
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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sat May 10, 2014 7:51 pm

So I got together with Bret, my rebuilder today so he could share the joy. After driving across Vancouver, I finally in the last couple of miles took my hand off the stick shift while in fourth and it stayed to the point I was getting nervous, but then, sure enough, out it popped. Of course the few miles he drove it it behaved, so we changed seats and I drove and it behaved onto the freeway, accel, decel, and then, it popped out of fourth.

So we went back to his place, and he gave everything a look over, coupling cage, stick shift position, and found everything tip-top, although cheating the engine on the mustache bar forward was the wrong direction, and I explained I had the stick shift base all the way back towards the rear of the bus because it had popped out when I had had it all the way to the front of the bus.

We slid the stick shift base all the way to the front of the bus, loosened the bolts on the tranny mount and mustache bar and cheated those all the way in the other direction towards the back of the bus. He was surprised to see how tight the coupling cage was against the end of the shift rod tube, expressing concerns about that.

Then we took it for another spin with him at the wheel up hill, down dale, accel, decel, and it popped out three more times. He was flummoxed. I got out my list of concerns others had suggested I should run past him and ran them past him. He was as confident it was none of those issues as I was I had the shift linkage and installation correct, and that the rubber boot wasn't it, it was the transaxle.

We got back to the house and he and his son brainstormed a bit but nothing except maybe a bushing he might have overlooked which one I'm unsure of.

So he offered me the option, he would build a different transaxle and I would give him my core, which he would rather do than rework this one a third time, which he would also do if that was what I preferred, but he said he's spooked, or he would refund me my money.

I really wanted a rebuilt transaxle. As I said, I can swap bell housings onto my old one which was working just fine, but for how long? I know that when my sister had Bertha, the transaxle died in California on her way back from a trip to New York, and she had it "repaired" it lasted long enough to get her far enough away from the shop she didn't go back and my Mom and I drove her boyfriend's pickup down to Weaverville I think it was in northern California and towed it back to Salem, Oregon. I don't know if the one I inherited was a used one put to service or a rebuilt one.

Decisions, decisions.

On a positive note, he thought the engine sounded and ran great.


neal
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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sun May 11, 2014 2:05 am

I love Cheryle. She is a voice of reason. We have the compromised original transaxle out of our Ghia that I replaced with a used one I bought from Bookwus. With great excitement at the beginning of this saga, I had hoped to afford both of them rebuilt.

I'm going to propose to Bret that he rebuild that one for my cash investment, swap the bell housing off his rebuild effort onto my original bus transaxle that was doing just fine, and take him up on his offer to be involved in the process of rebuilding a transaxle. If the issue is just one bushing in the mix with the one in the bus giving us such issues, perhaps after being involved in the process of rebuilding a type 1 transaxle, I could potentially deal with the bushing of suspect in the one currently in the bus in question after the fact. He's gone over it twice. I'm loath to move to an unknown third core rebuild.

No doubt I'll be able to describe this thought process more lucidly tomorrow.

neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Sun May 11, 2014 7:05 am

ruckman101 wrote: I'm going to propose to Bret that he rebuild that one for my cash investment, swap the bell housing off his rebuild effort onto my original bus transaxle that was doing just fine, and take him up on his offer to be involved in the process of rebuilding a transaxle. If the issue is just one bushing
neal
I stand behind my assessment . . . .
Bertha deserves a correctly rebuilt transaxle to go with the rebuilt engine.
You Neal, you tempt fate, you ride the ragged edge of exhausting detours and detains, perhaps it is your life's journey to traverse the road more traveled yet again.
ColinWhatDidTheyLaceTheCoffeeWith?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sun May 11, 2014 12:20 pm

Regardless, engine and transaxle are going to be coming back out. But it would seem to be a road more traveled yet again only by me at this point. I guess I'll try to get some more miles onto the engine and check the torque on the heads again, and stick with the original plan. Third time's a charm, right? Right?

neal
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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Tue May 27, 2014 5:25 pm

Neal did you find it easier to remove the engine together with trans? I have not done that before, wondering if that's the way to go. Mama2 needs attention very soon...
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Tue May 27, 2014 6:48 pm

hambone wrote:Neal did you find it easier to remove the engine together with trans? I have not done that before, wondering if that's the way to go. Mama2 needs attention very soon...
Since Ma has a removable apron, removing the engine alone is easier and quicker than engine/transaxle with CVs dropped gear shifter removed, etc. Type 4 buses its about equivalent to do the engine alone versus the whole shebang.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Tue May 27, 2014 8:39 pm

Just the engine is quicker. And then the ATV jack makes it a piece of cake as it drops lower and I don't have to angle the engine in past the brackets the apron attaches to. It's also easier to mate the engine to the transaxle with both of them out. It took me about three hours to pull both engine and transaxle. Probably twice the time to get just the engine out.


neal
The slipper has no teeth.

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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Tue May 27, 2014 9:22 pm

Uh oh 2 different points of view! Thank youse.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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