Itinerant Air-Cooled

On Thursday last, I drove to work happy as a clam. Backed into my usual spot and parked it. When I came out to drive home, getting the stick into neutral was like moving it through rocks in molasses in January. Since then, shifting has been variations of bad/impossible.

I can barely get it into first. Second is OK. Third feels like there is some resistance going into gear. Fourth is also hard to find. Shifting between 2-3-4 feels like I'm moving the shifter through rocks in thick mud. I adjusted the plate, and while it helped some small amount, overall things are not what they were. Never perfect, but at least smooth and easily able to negotiate the gear shifts.

There was no tell-tale moment leading up to this change. It drove/shifted fine 'til I parked it, then gonzo.

So; I haven't looked under the front to see if there's something that the shifter is caught on, or broke. There was no puddle of fluid, nothing seems to be leaking. I'll check the fluid level when I can, but am wondering if these symptoms sound familiar... a failing clutch, low fluid, something broken...

Michael L

Nothing I've ever experienced. Popping out of gears, yes. Weird sticking in gears, yes. But thick and molassassy? Nope. Weird.

Sorry I'm no help,
neal

Lanval wrote:On Thursday last, I drove to work happy as a clam.
Since then, shifting has been variations of bad/impossible.

Have your assistant attempt to engage first while you are under the car at the transaxle. You will see which way the shifter is trying to move. Now, grab it and help it along. If it then goes into gear, you will see where the inefficiency has crept in. May be a loose plastic bushing that steals all of your assistant's movement. May be a loose collar clamp along the shift rod (those require a close eye to see the almost imperceptible slop).
Colin

There is a bracket back near the transmission that holds the shift rod in position so the shift lever ball is well into the cup on the end of the shift rod. If the bracket slumps, then the ball is sort of sub-luxed (sorry, orthopedic term that means 'not quite dislocated') out of the cup and gears will be very hard to find. Loosen the bolts, push the bracket back up to get good engagement of the ball and cup, then re-tighten. That's what worked for me when I experienced similar shifting difficulties.

Good luck, Tim

Thanks Satchmo. I'll look at it as soon as I can, and get back to you guys. Colin ~ imagine I am you (without the skill) and am working somewhere with no assistant.

Let's see what happens with Satchmo's idea first.

Here's some pix. It doesn't appear the hanger is the problem as Satchmo suspected. At least, it looks solid to me. However, the piece above that, with the black plastic piece and the metal ball. The metal ball has some plastic bit hanging off of it that suggests there was something else there, something connected, not sure. Here's the pix.









Edit: I'm gonna see if I can make my shifter look like this guy's shifter. http://edbee.wordpress.com/2011/12/04/s ... ant-pipes/

Lanval wrote: Let's see what happens with Satchmo's idea first.

It doesn't appear the hanger is the problem as Satchmo suspected.

I see a potential sub-lux type issue. The ball and socket must be completely slop-free.
Good luck and I am glad to see you are aiming high with that link's clean shifter assembly.
Your initial air filter box, for example . . . .
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: The ball and socket must be completely slop-free.

Do I understand from this comment that the ball is supposed to be in the socket? It is, in fact, sitting above the socket by some measurable distance ~ maybe 1 cm. I haven't seen an "above" picture of that setup, due to the difficulty (I suppose) of positioning the camera in such a way as to make it clear. I don't know exactly what a correct setup looks like, you see, so can't identify from the picture that something is wrong... though I guessed it from the little plastic flap hanging off the ball (seen most clearly in the last picture).

I've stopped driving for now; weather is, of course, cooperating, so I'm biking it until that's fixed. Had to start one too many times in 2 and 3rd gear. Don't wanna destroy my clutch, etc....

Limping Rat

also: For Colin... from the same guy who did the lovely video of the Ferrari race cars. When it starts to get cold and New England-y, you can listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp357-zggaE

Lanval wrote:

Amskeptic wrote: The ball and socket must be completely slop-free.

Do I understand from this comment that the ball is supposed to be in the socket?

The ball describes an arc of course, so the ball cannot be at the bottom of the socket anywhere but at due south.
Colin

Nice photos there. Clearly, the ball is not engaged deep enough into the cup to allow good function.

Your first photo does a good job of showing the bracket that holds the bushing for the rear portion of the shift rod. There is some adjustability of this bracket both at the two bolts where the bracket attaches to the transmission housing, and at the two nuts that hold the bushing carrier housing on the bracket. See if loosening those gives you enough upward motion/adjustment of the shift rod to engage the ball into the socket better. Perhaps you already tried this.

I think if you look at shift components at either Van Cafe or BusBoys, you might get a better feeling how those shifter pieces fit together and come to the conclusion that one or several pieces need to be replaced. There are also replacement boots available that protect the gear selector shaft (that bellows/accordion shaped one) and to protect the ball/socket junction. When you get everything back to working properly, you need to pack that socket with grease and have a good rubber boot in place to prevent water and dirt intrusion.

I wish I had taken photos of the gear selector components when I worked on my 87 van, then I might be more helpful. I also think there was a design change in these components somewhere around 1985, so verify whether you are working with the old or newer style parts before trusting anything I say.

Here are a couple photos of the replacement rubber boots (stolen from Van Cafe - my apologies). The first one covers the cup/ball junction, the second protects the selector rod.

Good luck, Tim

Satchmo, thanks for the info: It seems to me that the ball sits down on the cup, and rolls back and forth in the cup. I see the difference you mention in the Bentley, and while their information is not what I'd call comprehensive (I think they assume you have at least a passing familiarity with this stuff), it seems like I need to get some new pieces. There is a plastic flange sitting on top of the ball, which makes me think it was helping to hold the ball down in the cup or something. I'll order some pieces tonight and see if I can get my act together next weekend. I'm hoping that it'll be obvious when I take it apart how it has to go back together. Worst case scenario I ride the bike until next summer. I'm sure my doctor would approve.

I found this link on the Samba, which is enough I think, to see the problem: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... ht=shifter. I'll have to order the kit and take a run at this. Not optimistic, but we'll see ~ maybe it's hard to go wrong.

Lanval wrote:Satchmo, thanks for the info: It seems to me that the ball sits down on the cup, and rolls back and forth in the cup. I see the difference you mention in the Bentley, and while their information is not what I'd call comprehensive (I think they assume you have at least a passing familiarity with this stuff), it seems like I need to get some new pieces. There is a plastic flange sitting on top of the ball, which makes me think it was helping to hold the ball down in the cup or something. I'll order some pieces tonight and see if I can get my act together next weekend. I'm hoping that it'll be obvious when I take it apart how it has to go back together. Worst case scenario I ride the bike until next summer. I'm sure my doctor would approve.

I found this link on the Samba, which is enough I think, to see the problem: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... ht=shifter. I'll have to order the kit and take a run at this. Not optimistic, but we'll see ~ maybe it's hard to go wrong.

If the bracket were installed incorrectly, then you would have symptoms stemming from that point. You, however, were once happy as a clam, and suddenly, your happiness was stolen from you. That steers me away from bracket installation error and towards an acute plastic break somewhere.
ColinCOLDinNY

If clams are happy, oysters must be jubilant!

Amskeptic wrote:If the bracket were installed incorrectly, then you would have symptoms stemming from that point. You, however, were once happy as a clam, and suddenly, your happiness was stolen from you. That steers me away from bracket installation error and towards an acute plastic break somewhere.
ColinCOLDinNY

I agree with this, but am unclear on what actually needs to be replaced. Since I am not familiar with this particular system, my best bet is to get the kit for $110 or so, and replace everything back there. Here's the kit:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_2 ... r_kit.html

If someone could explain in some more detail how that thing is put together (I can see the plastic piece that's broken on the actual linkage ~ I don't see anything that looks like that in kit however... somewhat confusing. I don't understand how the ball is kept in the socket.) then I could probably feel more comfortable here.

Also, it turns out you can start a vanagon from a flat, unmoving position in 3rd gear if you have a 2.1 and are willing to torture the clutch. Not what you want to hear?

ML

If you could get it apart and post a photo of what is broken, we might be able to advise you what to get and save you a little money in the process.

I don't have a vanagon sitting in front of me any more, so it is tough for me to tell you exactly how the pieces fit together. Perhaps someone else can.

Tim

satchmo wrote:If you could get it apart and post a photo of what is broken, we might be able to advise you what to get and save you a little money in the process.

I don't have a vanagon sitting in front of me any more, so it is tough for me to tell you exactly how the pieces fit together. Perhaps someone else can.

Tim

Good point.

Ball is trapped in socket by proximity only. Once you have bolted the bracket up, it is captive. Did you lose a circular bit of plastic edge that appears to hold the boot in a groove?

Got Bentley?
Colin