85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

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Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

Post by Lanval » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:16 am

I do in fact have the Bentley, but unsurprisingly, the illustration is insufficient to make clear how it all goes together. I won't have time to deal with it probably for at least a week, but maybe I can take it apart some evening... not sure. It's clear that something plastic is attached to the ball. Not sure what it was, hence my question. I read up a bit over on the Samba, but I'll post my question and pix over there; someone ought to be able to speak with more direct knowledge in the vanagon forum.

Thanks,

Michael L

Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

Post by Lanval » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:44 pm

OK, I finally got a free afternoon, had the parts, and thought I'd take a run at it. The last couple of months, I've been riding a bike to work (it's close and southern California weather is pretty good) and I've been working six to seven days per week. Anyway, I didn't get started until around 3:30pm which I was worried was not enough time.

I couldn't figure out how to remove the pin from the shifter connection up by the gas tank (where the forward and rear shift rod meet), nor was it clear how to best remove the pin from the cup. So I did neither. I simply dropped the brace which holds the shift rod bushing so I could remove the shift lever ball. Once I dropped the cup, it was apparent exactly what had happened. Take a look:

Image

As you can see, the plastic supports failed, allowing the ball to be pushed up. I suspect the failure was not as immediate as it felt. It's never been easy to shift, which leads me to suspect that this was an earlier failure that was incremental, and then finally, catastrophic.

Took me about two hours to remove the old shift lever ball and replace the two boots, then put it back together. The original cup didn't seem like it had any obvious wear points, so I risked leaving it in. I still have the replacement, and we'll maybe try that sometime in the next couple of months when I go back in for some other shifter stuff I need to check. Another nod, then, to Colin for giving me the training and self-confidence to attempt this late on a Sunday afternoon.

The shifting isn't perfect, but then I did very little. I still need to adjust the shifter plate up front (I moved it when this problem first appeared, hoping that was the issue ~ it follows that the shift plate is not in the optimal position). I also need to check the front shifter alignment guides. Apparently they wear down over time, and I have no idea what mine look like.

I've also been spending some time on my other project: bring this little beauty back to life for my daily rider to/from work...

Image

Enjoy the week all,

ML

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satchmo
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Re: 85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

Post by satchmo » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:30 pm

Nice to hear you have found your problem and effected a remedy. Carry on.

Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:59 pm

Lanval wrote: As you can see, the plastic supports failed, allowing the ball to be pushed up.
ML
I am on Bentley Page 34.7 illustration 34-1297 looking at a
"shift lever", a "boot", and a "lever -fits in only one position on shift rod".
I am curious about what they call the "tensioning pin".

It should make you have to push up on the shift lever as you install the bracket?

Did not see "plastic supports".

Then I turned the page to 34.7a illustration 34-1908.

I see the metal "lever", under which is an unlabeled I think boot, followed by a ball-with-weird stripy thing above it. Is that the "support" thing you were mentioning?
It looks like the weird stripy thing is but a plastic casting to allow the boot to stick in a groove, or does it serve as a distance piece to keep the ball center at the end of the lever that bolts to the transmission shaft?.

Fricken useless illustrations . . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

Post by Lanval » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:26 pm

Yeah, the Bentley's not the best for making details clear. They often assume that you know what you're doing (from a mechanical perspective) and that you know what the parts look like, or more likely, have them in hand.

In any case, here's a pic of the replacement I used.

Image

Notice how the ball is supported by a cone of plastic that keeps the ball from riding up? That's the part I'm talking about when I say "disintegrated" ~ the support which kept the ball from moving up the shaft to the pivot point is gone (though you can see the remnants of it clinging to the ball itself. That explains the pieces of plastic hanging off the ball that I mentioned earlier... those were the last bits of support that had failed)

When you look at the picture of the old ball, you can see that there's nothing to prevent the ball from riding up the metal shaft. I could argue that the shaft should have been made with a slight taper to prevent that, but it seems really chintzy to complain about the failure of a piece that I'm reasonably certain was the OEM original. Hell, that shifter is probably 28 years old. Not to take a cheap shot at Van Cafe, but I'll be surprised if their well-built replacement lasts so long.

************

The tension pin goes through the shifter rod vertically into the bottom of the cup, to hold the cup firmly in place. As I noted, the original cup didn't seem particularly worn, nor was it wiggly (i.e. the tension pin had started to go) so I left it in place.

When you come around next year, who knows where I'll be. Not in the same apartments for sure. At that point we may revisit that little spot, since someone on this or the Samba forum noted that seal is leaking, and the shaft going into the transmission has been beat up pretty badly. You should be able to see it on the original pix if you look.

Best,

ML

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon ~ shifting difficulty

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:51 pm

Lanval wrote:here's a pic of the replacement I used.
All is revealed . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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