1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

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hambone
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1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by hambone » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:03 pm

Wife reports that there is a problem with shifting. I check the pedal, and find there is a ton of play like a snapped cable.
Ok 3 frustrating hours later the new cable is installed, even though the old cable looked fine. I adjust to the right peal play but the clutch will not engage with engine running.
Ok again, I loosen the adjustment.
Now there is a bad vibration whenever the clutch pedal is released, and the engine does not fully engage with the trans. It does move the car but it sure doesn't sound right. Also, the pedal doesn't have much tension.

PLEASE tell me that I missed something, and it's not
1. the crossshaft
2. the pressure plate

Ever have one of those weeks?
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Psucamper
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by Psucamper » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:54 am

Does the Bowden cable still have its one inch dip back at the tranny? It's held on by a metal piece that's bolted into the drivers side of the tranny. Without the "dip" terrible shaking and bad clutching will occur. Bob L.

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Amskeptic
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:43 am

hambone wrote:Wife reports that there is a problem with shifting. I check the pedal, and find there is a ton of play like a snapped cable.
Ok 3 frustrating hours later the new cable is installed, even though the old cable looked fine. I adjust to the right peal play but the clutch will not engage with engine running.
Ok again, I loosen the adjustment.
Now there is a bad vibration whenever the clutch pedal is released, and the engine does not fully engage with the trans. It does move the car but it sure doesn't sound right. Also, the pedal doesn't have much tension.

PLEASE tell me that I missed something, and it's not
1. the crossshaft
2. the pressure plate

Ever have one of those weeks?
Collapsed pressure plate. Yank that sucker by lunch, Deal With It, drive her to dinner.
I hope you aren't going to tell me that it is some "new" Brazilian Sachs unit . . .

Didn't you deal with a collapsed plate in Ma?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by hambone » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:49 am

I did, but it was partially collapsed. This one seems to be the full meal deal.
We've had this Bug for 6 years, 30k miles of year-round city driving. She's never let us down. I guess it's time to pull the engine.
I have been up to my ears in Volkswagens! My word.
Thanks Colin. I also have to fix the endplay, good timing I guess. But she did move into the garage under her own power, barely...

BTW I DO NOT LIKE dealing with the Beetle pedal cluster...what an exercise in frustration. WHY didn't they make the tunnel hole an inch or so bigger?!!!?
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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Amskeptic
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:03 am

hambone wrote: WHY didn't they make the tunnel hole an inch or so bigger?!!!?
With the metallurgical quality of the time, that tunnel needed all the metal it could have.
ColinInThe,Like,Valley?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by hambone » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:47 pm

Gag me, oh gag me with a Hazet wrench.
P.S. I thought of another reason for all the type1 tin rubber seals: preventing metal on metal vibration. Whattya think HUH EH? I lost a bit of doghouse ductwork foam and now it rattles a little sometimes. (Lost; eg: ripped out by owner)
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:48 am

hambone wrote:Gag me, oh gag me with a Hazet wrench.
P.S. I thought of another reason for all the type1 tin rubber seals: preventing metal on metal vibration. Whattya think HUH EH? I lost a bit of doghouse ductwork foam and now it rattles a little sometimes. (Lost; eg: ripped out by owner)

I think most caulking and foam has been for sealing. Some grommets look to prevent chafing. Vibration will eat foam and caulk inside of a week.
The vibration that has been a part of Chloe's history has cut a few screw holes right off the lower tins, I have seen Type 4 engines that ate their magnesium alternator bracket mounts off from vibration, too.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by hambone » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:17 pm

Pulled the engine today, it hasn't been out of there in a while. ELBOW GREASE!!!!
Anyway Colin you were right of course, it was a partially collapsed pressure plate, Sachs Brazil. It was pretty clean, and the clutch disk still had tons of life left, so it is another case of Modern Era Junk.
Incidentally, this pressure plate collapsed in exactly the same way my '69 Bus PP failed a couple of years ago; the center ring is smashed in on one side.
I would use a Kennedy, but I hear they are uncomfortable for daily driving due to the foot pressure required, and strain the rest of the stock clutch system. I dunno, anyone been there? They are balanced at least, and I believe made in the USA.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/200mm-Kenn ... -200mm.htm
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C-C10-5143

PS should we move this thread to the transaxle section?
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:22 am

hambone wrote:Pulled the engine today, it hasn't been out of there in a while. ELBOW GREASE!!!!
Anyway Colin you were right of course, it was a partially collapsed pressure plate, Sachs Brazil. It was pretty clean, and the clutch disk still had tons of life left, so it is another case of Modern Era Junk.
Incidentally, this pressure plate collapsed in exactly the same way my '69 Bus PP failed a couple of years ago; the center ring is smashed in on one side.
I would use a Kennedy, but I hear they are uncomfortable for daily driving due to the foot pressure required, and strain the rest of the stock clutch system. I dunno, anyone been there? They are balanced at least, and I believe made in the USA.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/200mm-Kenn ... -200mm.htm
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C-C10-5143

PS should we move this thread to the transaxle section?
Stick with cushy springy stock for Erin, but try to find a good used German Sachs pressure plate from a used VW supplier. Really, with a carefully sanded pressure plate surface, they'll outlast the new stuff and be better balanced. You know the Road Warrior had its original pressure plate at 588,238 miles? The only noticeable problem brewing was that the fingers under the release bearing contact area were getting dangerously skinny.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Location: Portland, Ore.
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Re: 1968 Beetle - Clutch Issues

Post by hambone » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:02 am

This parts quality issue is stressful and disappointing. The whole point of these cars is quality and longevity. 600,000 miles!
A used German pressure plate is a good idea. There are still the 3 arms out there new, but I'd rather have the diaphragm style.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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