Axle Seal Swap

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drober23
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Axle Seal Swap

Post by drober23 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:07 pm

Hi!

Last summer, I noticed a leak from the seal between the transaxle and the CV joint on the passenger side. I made a note to top off the gear oil and rolled it the rest of the summer.

Now it is time to take care of it. I ordered the seals from Weddle Enterprises. These threads of people finding filings and chunks when they drain their transaxles has me only a little concerned. :-)

I'll put up some pictures when I have it apart, and may have a few questions before I am done.
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:05 am

drober23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:07 pm
Hi!

Last summer, I noticed a leak from the seal between the transaxle and the CV joint on the passenger side. I made a note to top off the gear oil and rolled it the rest of the summer.

Now it is time to take care of it. I ordered the seals from Weddle Enterprises. These threads of people finding filings and chunks when they drain their transaxles has me only a little concerned. :-)

I'll put up some pictures when I have it apart, and may have a few questions before I am done.

Are you getting the wide seals or the usual skinny seals? I did wide on Chloe's original transaxle, and never had a leak again.
Got a new rebuild from Rancho, and it leaked within 10,000 miles. NaranjaWesty 76,343 is dry, BobD 110,770 is dry.
Phooey,
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 86,570 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by asiab3 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:33 pm

Shoot, your Rancho 002 rebuild was leaking too? I guess I’ll stop at the buggy shop in Yuma AGAIN after your past recommendation. Those deep seals kept my old transaxle dry!

I haven’t been able to source the skinny seals recently. Drober23, let us know how thick your seals are!

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
99k miles with me.
277k miles on Earth.

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drober23
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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by drober23 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:49 pm

Here are the seals I bought from Weddle. The big seal is about 5/8" thick. Not sure if that makes it skinny or not. I know I put almost 50,000 miles on this transaxle, almost all of those with no leaks. No idea of its history before I got it years ago though.

DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:40 pm

drober23 wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:49 pm
Here are the seals I bought from Weddle. The big seal is about 5/8" thick. Not sure if that makes it skinny or not. I know I put almost 50,000 miles on this transaxle, almost all of those with no leaks. No idea of its history before I got it years ago though.
Those are the wide seals. Enjoy.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 86,570 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by wdollie6 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:48 am

Replaced mine two years ago and with minimal mileage have a leak... Can this be done while on the vehicle, hate to pull it for that. I even followed the "procedure". Did note that that the plastic dust cap was torn.

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by asiab3 » Sat May 26, 2018 9:18 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:48 am
Can this be done while on the vehicle, hate to pull it for that.
Absolutely! Make sure your installation of seals and caps is square and true; no funny angle business. Though unnecessary to seal, I found a light coating of Shellac or Permatex Aviation on the outside of the seal helped the Xtra Deep seal slide in all the way. Lubricate the inner sealing lip with oil to prevent excess friction on first drive.

Would packing these seals with grease be beneficial like crankshaft and wheel bearing seals?

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
99k miles with me.
277k miles on Earth.

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 30, 2018 7:32 am

asiab3 wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:18 am
Would packing these seals with grease be beneficial like crankshaft and wheel bearing seals?
Robbie
No pack. A light smear of grease on the CV flange seal surfaces is fine.
a) transaxle oil is halfway to grease, so transaxle oil will be a fine "break-in" sauce.
b) the transaxle's gears and bearings would love a little molybdenum-fortified grease, but:
c) the synchronizers would not,
(that molybdenum disulfide makes the synchronizers too slippery)
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 86,570 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by drober23 » Thu May 31, 2018 3:16 pm

I have the CV off, and the old seal exposed. I tried the suggested "pry with 2 large screwdrivers" technique. No luck.

The seal does not want to come out. Any suggestions for advanced seal removal techniques?
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:49 am

drober23 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 3:16 pm
I have the CV off, and the old seal exposed. I tried the suggested "pry with 2 large screwdrivers" technique. No luck.

The seal does not want to come out. Any suggestions for advanced seal removal techniques?
Drill two 1/4" holes 180* apart through the side of the seal, install 5/16" self tapping screws and slide hammer/pry it out with firmly locked visegrips.

Dremel the seal with a laser razor accurate cut only to the wall of the seal, use visegrips to peel the wall of the seal inwards.

Persevere, my boy, but do NOT nick the transaxle seal bore in any way.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 86,570 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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drober23
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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by drober23 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:44 am

Ooh, didn't think of the self tapping screw idea. That might be a place to start.

I would be scared to go in there with a dremel. Hope it doesn't come to that.

Thanks!
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by kreemoweet » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:16 pm

drober23 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 3:16 pm
Any suggestions for advanced seal removal techniques?
I've never been able to pry those seals out, even with my heavy-duty made-for-purpose seal puller tool, which just tears thru the seal
metal without budging it. Those things are just too damned tight. What I usually end up using is my Knipex diagonal cutters to nip and
pull, nibble and twist, nip and pull on the seal, taking off little chunks until it gives up it's grip. It can be a bit tedious, but there's little chance of damaging the seal bore or anything else.

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by drober23 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:31 pm

Slide hammer for the win! Thanks for the suggestion.

The local FLAPS lets you "rent" one bu purchasing it, then refunding the money when you return it. It took some thought to get the flange to grab two screws where I was able to get the slide hammer in place, but after some fussing it came out.

It was a wide seal, so this job had been done before.
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:48 am

drober23 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:31 pm
Slide hammer for the win! Thanks for the suggestion.

The local FLAPS lets you "rent" one bu purchasing it, then refunding the money when you return it. It took some thought to get the flange to grab two screws where I was able to get the slide hammer in place, but after some fussing it came out.

It was a wide seal, so this job had been done before.
Good! I'm up next. I got two wide seals and two blue CV flange caps ($22.00) when I went through Yuma.
Chloe's Rancho transaxle needs them.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 86,570 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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drober23
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Re: Axle Seal Swap

Post by drober23 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:22 pm

Just to bring some completion to this.

The seal is in, and does not appear to leak about 100 miles in.

I am getting what sounds like the beginning of a throwout bearing starting to go now that I am driving the bus again though. Just a little growl the first time or two I engage the clutch to start from rest when its cold.
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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