Metal in Transmission Fluid

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kleinevw
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Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by kleinevw » Fri May 12, 2017 8:57 am

My new 2L engine is finally in its final stages of the rebuild. Just waiting on the tin to get back from powder coat and to break it in on the test stand. While waiting I decided to clean up a few other parts, I wasn't planning on messing with the transmission because it was working fine prior to the rebuild, but I figured at the least I'd change the fluid. The Magnetic plug cavity was full of metalic grit and old fluid. In cleaning it out I found the 3 pieces of more substantial material in the sludge. While I understand this is not ideal, is their a certain amount of metal/wear to be expected in a 40 year old 5 rib transmission with an unknown history? I am not excited about the prospect of a tranny rebuild considering the investment I just made in the engine, but would consider it if its inevitable. Whats the consensus slap it back together and keep going, or failure is imminent?
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airkooledchris
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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by airkooledchris » Fri May 12, 2017 3:20 pm

Image

This is what Colin and I found when we pulled mine. It's still doing fine.
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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Amskeptic » Fri May 12, 2017 6:57 pm

airkooledchris wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 3:20 pm
Image

This is what Colin and I found when we pulled mine. It's still doing fine.

Yeah, I was going to say, "don't worry about it," but airkooledchris beat me to it.
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BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 84,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Jivermo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:39 pm

I was helping exoticdvm change his trans lube today, and then drain magnet looked pretty much the same as the one in this thread. HOWEVER...in addition to the fuzz metal, I found two larger pieces of magnetic steel that appear to be parts of gear teeth. See photo attached. Question being; they are going on a long road trip, Miami to Alaska, this spring. He says that the transaxle shifts well, and exhibits no sign of any defects, other than an occasional light sticking in shifting from 1st to 2nd. He then goes back to first, and tries again. Exactly 2 liters drained out. I read where possibly 1.5 liters may remain in the housing. Is that correct? Course of action? Refill and drive? Thanks.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PqRCFHSil2pa75iF3

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:22 am

Jivermo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:39 pm
I was helping exoticdvm change his trans lube today, and then drain magnet looked pretty much the same as the one in this thread. HOWEVER...in addition to the fuzz metal, I found two larger pieces of magnetic steel that appear to be parts of gear teeth. See photo attached. Question being; they are going on a long road trip, Miami to Alaska, this spring. He says that the transaxle shifts well, and exhibits no sign of any defects, other than an occasional light sticking in shifting from 1st to 2nd. He then goes back to first, and tries again. Exactly 2 liters drained out. I read where possibly 1.5 liters may remain in the housing. Is that correct? Course of action? Refill and drive? Thanks.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PqRCFHSil2pa75iF3

And a Good Year to you,

That is a little bit dangerous-looking, Ian. The object on the right, did it have a groove where the straight line was evident, or was that a change in profile? If it was a change in profile, I would guess that it is a synchronizer key, like the amazing buffet of exploded synchronizer that weisswurst and I found. Any of this look familiar?:

Image


The Weisswurst transmission had lost all synchronizer action on 3rd gear, but he was especially attentive to catch it at the exact moment, so continuing damage was kept to a minimum. Valentina drove fine the last time, so this may not be a synchro key, but it could be a reverse gear tooth knocked right off when someone tried to engage reverse without benefit of the clutch. You can live with a problem such as the above so long as there is an unwavering awareness to work around the lost of strength at the source of the missing metal . . . :cyclopsani:
I look forward to another test drive.
Colin

An Ode To VW Transaxles That Keep Plugging

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BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 84,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Jivermo » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:03 am


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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Bleyseng » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:30 pm

I'd say time for a rebuild before something else explodes destroying the transmission
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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Jivermo » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:15 pm

After looking at a lot of gear pics of the 091, online, I think I have identified the gear part-maybe 3-4 slider, or they are calling this a clutch gear. Is that the same? The pieces have the characteristics, and right where the yellow arrows are pointing. What’s the opinion out there? And then, does this mean a rebuild? Is this a known failure point? This is a revolting development.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i7Zmea8I5taKGVSN2

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:04 pm

Jivermo wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:15 pm
After looking at a lot of gear pics of the 091, online, I think I have identified the gear part-maybe 3-4 slider, or they are calling this a clutch gear. Is that the same? The pieces have the characteristics, and right where the yellow arrows are pointing. What’s the opinion out there? And then, does this mean a rebuild? Is this a known failure point? This is a revolting development.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i7Zmea8I5taKGVSN2
If Marc was having difficulty shifting in 1st/2nd, then we would start with guessing that it is the 1/2 synchronizer hub, not the 3rd/4th. Do any of the parts match up to each other?

Have you driven Valentina?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 84,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Jivermo » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 pm

Do any of the parts match up to each other?
Have you driven Valentina?
Colin
No, the two parts don’t join at any of the surfaces, although they have similarities. I have not driven it yet. Will drive tomorrow, after we get done with a couple more things.

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Jivermo » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 pm

Any recommendations on an east coast 091 rebuilder, in case we need to go that route.

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Re: Metal in Transmission Fluid

Post by Hobug » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:59 am

Jivermo wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 pm
Any recommendations on an east coast 091 rebuilder, in case we need to go that route.
Rusty Bottom Garage http://rustybottomgarage.com/ near Nashville TN. Billy is a stand up guy and he does a good job.
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