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Re: Failed my DEQ & White Smoke.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:51 am
by Sluggo
Amskeptic wrote:Sluggo wrote:Went to get my DEQ test today and fail the HC test. First time HC was 2001. Bumped up the idle and advanced the timing slightly then came back and got two tries. First was 1510 then 1591. Way over the 300 limit for HC. Then, when I got home, I saw lot's of white smoke coming out the tailpipe. Made sure the timing, idle & mixture were good but still got lot's of white smoke while idling and more while revving. Any clues? Just had a valve guide replaced and replace the P&Cs with good used ones.
Did you smell the smoke? Lots of white is usually a blown head gasket allowing antifreeze into the combustion chambers. That would be a problem in an air-cooled bus.
White smoke in an air-cooled engine is insanely insanely rich UNburned fuel.
You have got to diagnose this thing. White smoke? Is it idling smooth or is there a miss? Dead cylinder? Did you do the pump-the-brake-pedal outside of the testing station to see where your mixture was? No sense in blowing money. I do that test to make sure my mixture is correctly lean. If the idle *ever* went up when I pumped the brake pedal, I would just drive past the station and adjust. Those aftermarket carbs suck. Period.
Engine was smooth. Smoke smelled more fuel like but not really like gas. Didn't pump the brake. I know that test, just didn't think of it. I'll try that today. No money blown. DEQ is free until you pass. I'd install the stock carbs if Keifernet ever got them back to me. About three years he's had them now. I wouldn't say the carbs suck. Just not perfect for this application.
Re: Failed my DEQ & White Smoke.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:39 pm
by Sluggo
Marvel Mystery Oil couldn't cause this could it? I added a little to the fuel and a little to the oil. Hadn't used it before but heard that it was helpful on a new top end rebuild.
Re: Failed my DEQ & White Smoke.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:49 pm
by Gypsie
forensics...
what is your tailpipe looking like, totally sooty or ashy, or ???
What do your spark plugs look like...
Hows compression?
I lean to excessive fuel or a bad burning cyl.
'Joo ever get that o2 sensor thing working so you can check mix at the tailpipe?
2cents...
Re: Failed my DEQ & White Smoke.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:43 pm
by Sluggo
Did a compression test and checked my plugs. #3 is the worst looking this time although #4 is oily too. Looks like I'll be dropping the engine again. #3 is where I have my temp sender so this could be my high heat reading issue also.
#1: 90
#2: 105
#3: 75
#4: 100
Guess I shouldn't have reused Hal's rings.
Does the oil on these plugs indicate that I'm still having guide troubles?
Spark Plugs
1 & 2
3 & 4
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:46 pm
by Sluggo
Merged with the original thread for continuity since they are the same problem.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:34 pm
by Sluggo
Should I shell out the $300 for new P&Cs? Money is tight right now so I don't want to spend if I don't have to. My general plan is to just replace the rings and rehone if possible.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:12 pm
by tristessa
Squirt some oil into 1 & 3, re-do the compression test and see if the numbers go up. If yes it's the rings, if no it's the heads .. or the cylinder-to-head seal but I'd think you could hear it if that was the case.
Oh, and get some single-electrode plugs. The BP6ET triple-electrode jobs are great in watercooled VW motors, but I've run them in an aircooled and wasn't impressed. Didn't *hate* them, but...
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:29 pm
by Sluggo
tristessa wrote:Squirt some oil into 1 & 3, re-do the compression test and see if the numbers go up. If yes it's the rings, if no it's the heads .. or the cylinder-to-head seal but I'd think you could hear it if that was the case.
Oh, and get some single-electrode plugs. The BP6ET triple-electrode jobs are great in watercooled VW motors, but I've run them in an aircooled and wasn't impressed. Didn't *hate* them, but...
Was gonna do that but I couldn't find my oil can. I'll pick one up tomorrow.
What's wrong with the BP6ET's? Haven't seen an issue but have only run them for a few weeks.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:32 pm
by chitwnvw
IDK, those numbers are pretty much better than my rebuild. I am running 85 to 90 on all 4, but it runs like a top.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:27 pm
by Amskeptic
Re-using rings means any time the piston is removed from a cylinder, a *mandatory* glaze-break at the very least, AND you have to break in your new/used rings with the repeated acceleration procedure no fooling around. I got 71,000 miles on satchmo's used pistons and cylinders with new rings. Honed the cylinders with a drill hone and dishwashing liquid.
These suggestions are totally serious Do Not Waste Your Own Time. I am the sort who would reuse rings in a pinch, but I would definitely polish the ring thrust surfaces and hone the cylinders and break in aggressively.
Colin
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:39 pm
by Sluggo
Amskeptic wrote:Re-using rings means any time the piston is removed from a cylinder, a *mandatory* glaze-break at the very least, AND you have to break in your new/used rings with the repeated acceleration procedure no fooling around. I got 71,000 miles on satchmo's used pistons and cylinders with new rings. Honed the cylinders with a drill hone and dishwashing liquid.
These suggestions are totally serious Do Not Waste Your Own Time. I am the sort who would reuse rings in a pinch, but I would definitely polish the ring thrust surfaces and hone the cylinders and break in aggressively.
Colin
So another tear down and top end build. I'd think the rings would have re-broken in when I went on the Badger Creek campout. My thinking was that since they were already mated with those pistons everything would be dandy. That's the only reason I reused them. I guess I'll just get new P&Cs to be safe. Don't wanna do this again for a while.
Need to find another place to do this too. Hammie's garage is currently occupied by a sick Beetle.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:09 am
by Sluggo
If I buy new cylinders do they still need to be honed?
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:23 pm
by Xelmon
Sluggo wrote:If I buy new cylinders do they still need to be honed?
Yes. You have to hone the cyl and walls so that it matches...
At least that's my understanding of the situation.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:13 pm
by Westy78
Sluggo wrote:If I buy new cylinders do they still need to be honed?
Pistons and cylinders as a set? No, but they will need the ring break in procedure.
Re: Oil in the #4 combustion chamber!
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:14 pm
by Xelmon
Westy78 wrote:Sluggo wrote:If I buy new cylinders do they still need to be honed?
Pistons and cylinders as a set? No, but they will need the ring break in procedure.
Oh, I was thinking
machining... Never mind.