FI - idle changing with temp

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onion456
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Post by onion456 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:50 pm

two questions;

one, according to the distributor spec i posted above, it would be timed to 20.5-24.5 @ 3400 rpm . i am exceeding that by timing to 28*@3500. by the spec, since i have advanced it by at least 4* ahead of spec, my idle should also fall at least 4* ahead of spec (7.5), shouldnt i see 11.5 at idle? if so, does this mean the advance window of the distributor is out of spec, and can it be adjusted? i am seeing 0* after setting 28*@3500

second, ive been shopping around for a different FI setup, i got a reply about another one, the guy sent me a pic, and it seems like its the same funky setup as mine. he says its from a 77. i believe mine is from a 75 automatic, which explains extra vaccuum ports on the plenum and throttle switch. also the pinout of the AFM is different than the one on my camper (bear with me, i think one is 5 pins and the other is 6), and there is a connection on the wiring harness for what i think is the 02 sensor. anyone here versed on the different setups? i would like to match what is on my camper, for parts interchangability

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:56 pm

onion456 wrote:two questions;

one, according to the distributor spec i posted above, it would be timed to 20.5-24.5 @ 3400 rpm . i am exceeding that by timing to 28*@3500. by the spec, since i have advanced it by at least 4* ahead of spec, my idle should also fall at least 4* ahead of spec (7.5), shouldnt i see 11.5 at idle? if so, does this mean the advance window of the distributor is out of spec, and can it be adjusted? i am seeing 0* after setting 28*@3500

second, ive been shopping around for a different FI setup, i got a reply about another one, the guy sent me a pic, and it seems like its the same funky setup as mine. he says its from a 77. i believe mine is from a 75 automatic, which explains extra vaccuum ports on the plenum and throttle switch. also the pinout of the AFM is different than the one on my camper (bear with me, i think one is 5 pins and the other is 6), and there is a connection on the wiring harness for what i think is the 02 sensor. anyone here versed on the different setups? i would like to match what is on my camper, for parts interchangability
Distributors do get sloppy over time, and they open up the range of advance. If you are at 28* at 3,400 rpm, and the timing falls to ATDC at idle, you really don't have to worry about it if your engine meets the following two criteria:
1) If you still have the ability to increase idle speed to 1,100 rpm with the speed screw (set it at 950)
2) If the timing advances to the correct first stage (IIRC 16*BTDC @ 16-2000 rpm)
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

onion456
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Post by onion456 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:54 am

the symptoms, they are a changin'

seems like my high idle is working itself out. maybe. after running for a time, like getting off the freeway, the idle is around 1600, and will eventually fall to around 1000, takes maybe 10 seconds or so. this seems normal to me, centrifugal advance, right? maybe things have been a little sticky in there and the excercise is doing it some good.

i am seeing 13* @ 1600rpms.

the camper special sure likes to go fast- the faster i go, the quieter it gets. and it sure doesnt like to idle. my other bus will idle all day long- this one will miss occasionally at idle, and after idling for a minute or two will decide its not being used to its full potential so it will shut itself off =P

do you think a new distributor would make it happy?

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:30 am

onion456 wrote:do you think a new distributor would make it happy?
I didn't realize you had a Camper Special so I'll let the others chime in regarding which distributor would be best. However, if you decide that the distributor you have would benefit from a rebuild, these guys do fantastic work.

http://www.philbingroup.com/index.htm
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1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

onion456
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Post by onion456 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:39 am

i know jake likes the mallory...

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bretski
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Post by bretski » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:52 am

I would pull the distributor and give it a little DIY overhaul. Sounds to me like the centrifugal advance weights are sticking. I had a similar issue where my idle would remain high after deceleration. If I turned the key off and restarted the engine, the idle would be right back within spec. It was the weights sticking.

Pulled the distributor when CK was out last summer, tore it down, gave everything a Gumout bath, fresh grease, and re-assembled. Works like new, now. :cyclopsani:

Give it a try...it's an easy 30 minute project.
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Post by onion456 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:06 am

that sounds like a plan =) and i agree thats what it sounds like to me.

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:46 am

onion456 wrote:that sounds like a plan =) and i agree thats what it sounds like to me.
P.S. does Jake *currently* like the Mallory? They went to hell there for a while.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

onion456
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Post by onion456 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:40 pm

i went to price it out and its not listed anymore- sales says they are no longer offering it.

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Westy78
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Post by Westy78 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:06 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
onion456 wrote:that sounds like a plan =) and i agree thats what it sounds like to me.
P.S. does Jake *currently* like the Mallory? They went to hell there for a while.
Not that I know of. You've personally seen the scatter in mine at high RPM. That is the main reason they're no longer sold by Jake at the moment.
Chorizo, it's what's for breakfast.

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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Mon May 03, 2010 1:13 pm

bretski wrote:I would pull the distributor and give it a little DIY overhaul. Sounds to me like the centrifugal advance weights are sticking. I had a similar issue where my idle would remain high after deceleration. If I turned the key off and restarted the engine, the idle would be right back within spec. It was the weights sticking.

Pulled the distributor when CK was out last summer, tore it down, gave everything a Gumout bath, fresh grease, and re-assembled. Works like new, now. :cyclopsani:

Give it a try...it's an easy 30 minute project.
Does this process include pulling the guts out of the distributor? Or just the topend ofthe guts?

If so how is this done? I think I am having a distributor issue. More later.
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Mon May 03, 2010 2:46 pm

It involves pulling the guts. If you drive out the pin that holds the dog gear (or whatever it's called) to the shaft, and remove the screws holding the plate inside, you can disassemble the whole thing. Don't forget to mark the orientation of the drive gear before you remove it.
Don

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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Mon May 03, 2010 2:50 pm

vwlover77 wrote:It involves pulling the guts. If you drive out the pin that holds the dog gear (or whatever it's called) to the shaft, and remove the screws holding the plate inside, you can disassemble the whole thing. Don't forget to mark the orientation of the drive gear before you remove it.
Any tips on pin driving. I think I will need to do this.
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Randy in Maine
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Post by Randy in Maine » Mon May 03, 2010 3:12 pm

We have one of those Harbor Freight type places around here and I bought a little brass punch set ($5) designed to remove the hinge pins from a kitchen cabinent that worked well.

I put the distributor in a leather glove in my bench vise to hold it without it being beaten to death. It worked well.
79 VW Bus

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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Tue May 04, 2010 8:46 am

Sounds good. Thanks Randy.
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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