Rear Main Seal (flywheel) Sabo vs. VR

[73Kombi]

Ok, so I am seeing some oil leakage from my bell housing and it's time to R&R the motor and replace the main seal and o-ring. I bought this VR German seal and O-ring today in Reno and I'm searching the AIRS site for a place to do the deed. (any Samba members in Reno?)


In any case, I stopped by this bus shop called "J's VW Vans" to check out his remarkable bus parts stash, and the owner tells me these Viton seals are crap, and that he and GOWesty have bought up all the OB Sabo (Original Brazilian) seals that are in existence and that they are the only seal to use!

I did compare them to side by side, and yes the Sabo does have a bigger spring, and it's a couple grams heavier, the old man kept dropping it on the counter to make sure I knew it was heavier and BETTER!....but the depth is the same 12mm (unlike in the linked pic)

I was curious...do you buy this story about the Sabo seal? There are no topics here covering this magic seal. But here's a link to the hype.

http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=535

The dude here in Reno is selling these Sabos for $25 and I paid $11 for the Victor Reinz.

I posted this over at theSamba and am getting no opinions...other than Scott (german supply) saying the VR seal is not Viton. BusDepot sells this seal as a Viton seal?

http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=029105245B

Also, I did find a guy on the AIRS ! so I'll be doing this friday.

[73Kombi]

Well, I learned a few things today....the orange VR seal is NOT Viton, but silicone...Scott was right! Ron at BusDepot is marketing this seal as Viton but it's not....not even close.

I spoke with Walter @ Bus Boys as he is the only vendor that actually sells the orange seal and calls it what it is. Silicone.

In fact I spoke with DuPont and they said Victor Reinz is not, or has not ever been licensed to use the word Viton, as it is trademarked. Viton is actually the brand name of a fluorelastomer polymer and the Sabo seal is made from that.

I see Scott has the "Viton" VR seal listed on his site...but he's the only source in the world that I found today.

DuPont seems to take issue with people using their trademarked name without license...

[chitwnvw]

Keep it coming. Good stuff. It's all about separating the wheat from the chaff with the bays.

[Amskeptic]

Ron at BusDepot is marketing this seal as Viton but it's not....not even close.

Walter @ Bus Boys is the only vendor that calls it what it is. Silicone.

DuPont and they said Victor Reinz is not, or has not ever been licensed to use the word Viton.

Viton seals, both main and pushrod have a characteristic brown.

Double-check with Ron at Bus Depot that he is selling "Viton" and ask for a description. It could be phone personnel that have it wrong. Lot's o' marketing-hyped sheep follow threads here and there that slobber all over the word "Viton" and so, to be a Part Of It All, will bandy about designer labels and somesuch.

Victor Reinz I do not think has ever claimed "Viton" for the main seals, and they do not even show up in their typical engine overhaul gasket sets.

By the way, I have not had problems with the orange seals. I pack them with grease in the inner lip/spring area and this helps them transfer and dissipate heat from the lip, ergo! functionality.
Colin

[73Kombi]

Double-check with Ron at Bus Depot that he is selling "Viton" and ask for a description. It could be phone personnel that have it wrong.

It's right on their website Colin, and I did buy one from Ron back in July...it's lasted about 7000 miles...I did call them yesterday, on the 800 line, and got a phone jockey that basically is just looking at their web-site to parrot what it says. They don't let you talk to Ron on the "free'' line, and I didn't feel like dropping coin to talk with him.

Victor Reinz I do not think has ever claimed "Viton" for the main seals, and they do not even show up in their typical engine overhaul gasket sets.

Correct. It's not Victor Reinz that is propagating this Viton BS, it's the people selling their products. When I spoke with DuPont, (they have a special line for product questions) they will actually tell you who has the right to use their TM name. I could not find one company that actually uses the DuPont product to make engine seals.

Viton seals, both main and pushrod have a characteristic brown.

The color is is pretty much irrelevant, as fluorelastomer polymers start off their life clear and colorless...any color die could be added to make the end product any color you like. It's only the FP's from DuPont that can be called "Viton". Think Advil vs. Ibuprofen.

http://www.sabo.com.br/si/site/0503?idioma=ingles

It's not that silicon is bad, it's just that fluorelastomer is better.

In any case, after speaking with Jerry again at J's VW here in Reno, I have decided to give the Sabo seal a go, it does say right on the box, "Fluorelastomero". It cost about the same as getting a brown one shipped from Scott, and the people I spoke with yesterday at Victor Reinz spoke fairly highly of Sabo. They are made in Brazil, but they have nothing to do with VW of Brazil, other than they sell parts to VW.

[DjEep]

We went through this at the shop when a bunch of waterboxers came back drippin oil. Those VR orange ones are poop.

[hambone]

John at ACNet swears by the orange silicone seals. Usually his word is pretty good.

[Amskeptic]

I have had no problems with the orange silicone seals.

There are many many many factors to consider with oil leaks. I like the o-ring this week. That little PIA needs a clean unmarred groove and must be replaced at each flywheel removal. The main seal surface on the flywheel must be sanded thoroughly to give a little oil-retention-tooth.
The endplay MUST be within spec, and that means no .006"+ .
Thank you,
Colin

[sped372]

Digging this one up from (not so far) back...

Colin, you mention packing the seal with grease; what kind? Just all purpose wheel bearing grease? White lithium? Wilson book recommends coating the endplay shims with white grease (I assume this is lithium grease). I finally have time to get the bus engine back together and will be going through these steps in the next few days.

[Robert Berglund]

why would you spend a dime to contact Ron over at The Bus Depot when you can send him a direct E-Mail, and in return, get a direct answer to your question right from Ron himself.

Had some good communication about the various CV boots being marketed and got fast replys to my queries.

[hambone]

Use CV moly grease, and pack the hell out of everything - the seal, the hub, your mama. It's the way to go.

[chitwnvw]

Use CV moly grease, and pack the hell out of everything - the seal, the hub, your mama. It's the way to go.

I was looking at my Parks moly for bicycle bottom brackets, it is green and thick, looks like just the thing.