Will Not Run

Moderators: Amskeptic, Sluggo

Post Reply
User avatar
whc03grady
IAC Addict!
Location: Livingston Montana
Contact:
Status: Offline

Will Not Run

Post by whc03grady » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:01 pm

The bus ran when parked, back in October. The last couple trips I had noticed a noticeable hiccup at speed, not regular-like, but definitely there.

We're going on a big trip at the end of this month, so last week I figured I should tune it up. It wouldn't start, but turned over. It made no attempt to run, like when (in my experience) it's a fuel issue, so I figured a spark problem. The points were tight, like 0.010", so I took them out. They were somewhat pitted and caved. I bought a new set (cheesy generic CarQuest brand though, I must admit) and installed them, gapped to 0.016". It still wouldn't start, but would turn over.

I had Melissa crank as I pulled the wires off the distributor cap, looking for spark. They all, including the center, had bluish spark.

Melissa said, "You know, this fuel gauge says it's empty." I had already taken the cap off, rocked the car, and listened. There was definitely some slosh but not much. What the hell, I got 1.5 gallons and dumped all but a couple splashes in the tank. I poured a tablespoon or so directly in each carb. Now it turned over and chugged a little, but wouldn't run. After a few chugs, it was back to just cranking.

Okay, fuel filter maybe? One of them (there are two; long story) looked a little grungy so I replaced it. Still no start.

The relay that doesn't give the fuel pump power unless the engine is running is screwed to the firewall? Two wires ground where it's connected. It was a little loose at the firewall. I tightened it. No change. Checked all the wires in the engine compartment. Turns over, doesn't try to run. By now the battery's getting mad and giving me the solenoid click once in awhile so I put the charger on it.

Next steps?
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

User avatar
lilpig88
I'm New!
Location: SW Montana
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by lilpig88 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:48 pm

We're finally settled just over the hill from you. Let me know if you'd like some extra help, parts, moral support or whatever!

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by asiab3 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:42 pm

Run the electronic fuel pump for five seconds or so to ensure the carbs have fuel in their respective bowls. Any difference in cranking after that?

Does the oil (dipstick and oil cap) smell like gasoline?

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
whc03grady
IAC Addict!
Location: Livingston Montana
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by whc03grady » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:10 pm

It fired up after a little struggle and rough running. Dwell is pegged 0.5-hair above 44* (first time in history I got it right on the first attempt).
I'm wondering if water in the gas didn't have some time to settle out during the Fall and early Winter, and then maybe even freeze in the line until I warmed up the garage yesterday. But then, I don't really know what I'm talking about usually.

Can I please be directed to the instructions for a full dual-carb tune-up, please? We'd like to drive Ludwig to Tucson and back in a couple weeks. Speaking of, what weight oil do you use when your 3,000 mile trip begins and ends at 30*, but has a 5 days of 70* in the middle?

lilpig88--definitely. Look for a PM soon.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

User avatar
whc03grady
IAC Addict!
Location: Livingston Montana
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by whc03grady » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:20 pm

whc03grady wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:10 pm
Dwell is pegged 0.5-hair above 44* (first time in history I got it right on the first attempt).
Spoke too soon. As it's been idling for 10-15 minutes, the dwell has crept up to 47*.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by asiab3 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:21 pm

In my experience, new points take a short while to "break in" and let the rubbing block take its full seat on the distributor cam lobes. I usually reset new points at 200 miles, and then with a little thick grease they're good to go from Pacific to Atlantic oceans.

If my oil change interval encompasses the climates yours will, I use 10w40 and maybe not run the engine at its maximum output for 12 hours on the hottest day. Or maybe I will anyway, as long as the oil level is topped off and the pressure light doesn't come on at idle.

A bigger question here is your procedure for "winterizing" your car. Starts and running tend to be MUCH smoother if you do a few things before letting it sit. Here was a worksheet I made for a few people last year, which doesn't explain WHY we do anything, just what I do if I'm leaving a car over a few months.

http://asiab3.com/media/winterize.pdf

I think I would also add "smell the oil cap and dipstick for gasoline" to the list of springtime checks before starting.

A fresh charge on a battery can also increase cranking speed to help a carbureted car draw more fuel in, or a fuel injected car stay above the voltage cutoff for the ECU/injectors.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
satchmo
Old School!
Location: Claremont, CA
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by satchmo » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:09 am

Dual carb tuning:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7767

Satchmo
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:29 am

whc03grady wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:20 pm
whc03grady wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:10 pm
Dwell is pegged 0.5-hair above 44* (first time in history I got it right on the first attempt).
Spoke too soon. As it's been idling for 10-15 minutes, the dwell has crept up to 47*.
So it did start after all. Is this car a daily drive in the winter?
I say we do not do a "full dual carburetor tune-up" until you have the engine fully awake with a couple of 30-60 minute + drives. Air-cooled engines run so cold in the winter, that you need to get combustion chambers warmed up and cleaned up at the same time. It only takes two or three short starts (like when you are just moving it out of the garage, shutting it off, moving it back into the garage, shutting it off) to coat the carbon on the plugs and combustion chamber surfaces with moist water and gasoline that shorts out the spark plugs enough to cause difficult starting. My rule is, if the engine starts in the winter, it is not shutting off for at least thirty minutes of actual driving.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by hambone » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:42 am

47 deg. +/- 3
Check wiring at coil, make sure cap n rotor are clean.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
whc03grady
IAC Addict!
Location: Livingston Montana
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by whc03grady » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:22 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:21 pm
http://asiab3.com/media/winterize.pdf

I think I would also add "smell the oil cap and dipstick for gasoline" to the list of springtime checks before starting.
And I would add "you might think all the water is out of the reservoir, lines, and faucet, but it isn't".
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:29 am
So it did start after all. Is this car a daily drive in the winter?
It's never a daily driver. It's not unusual to press it into service for a Winter camp. I'm not entirely averse to storing the battery in the house for a few months, as long as it's safe to do so. Do I just leave my charger on it until it needs to go in the bus?
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:29 am
I say we do not do a "full dual carburetor tune-up" until you have the engine fully awake with a couple of 30-60 minute + drives.
Whew! Just reading that whole procedure had me sweating.
Since the points appear to be okay, unless advised otherwise I'll adjust the valves, look at the timing, change the oil, and be on our way. We'll keep it under 70 mph on hot days between Las Vegas and Tucson.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Will Not Run

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:20 pm

whc03grady wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:22 pm
Do I just leave my charger on it until it needs to go in the bus?
No.
Here is the winter battery program instructions in non-PDF format:

a) take battery out
b) charge overnight 2A
c) let sit off floor, wood shelf is good, room temp is good
d) however many months later, charge overnight 2A
e) put battery in

Colin :blackeye:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

Post Reply