Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

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blue72beetle
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Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:07 pm

I’d like to document my engine build here in one thread. That way I can ask any pertinent questions and keep info here. I’m building a 1776 for my 71 bus, and aside from displacement it’s going to be all stock. I was planning on making it a Mexican Fuel Injected engine, and I have most of those parts, but for now I’m thinking of remaining carbureted. Either way, I need to build a good quality long block first.

As Robbie can attest, the current engine in my bus has a crazy amount of end play. The timing jumps all over, and I can’t seem to maintain good drivability with it. I’ll get it tuned well one day, then a week later it will run lousy, then run fine, then lousy, etc. I don’t know the history of it, mileage, etc, so I’m building a new engine from scratch.

So here is what I’m starting with. (I took the picture with all the Mexi FI stuff)

Image
Full size here: https://photos.smugmug.com/1776-Build/i ... 180626.jpg

-New AS41 Case purchased from So Cal Imports somewhere around 15 years ago (for $400!). Machined to 1776, no full flow.
-Pair of heads I bought from someone off The Samba quite a few years ago. Can’t remember who, I lost the emails. They machined them and polished the combustion chambers. I *think* they did a 3 angle valve job, but I’ll probably take it to a machine shop to find out.
-New CB Performance forged 69mm crank http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1105.htm
-New CB Performance 200mm flywheel drilled for 8 dowel to match crank http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1308.htm
-New Mahle 90.5 P&C’s
-New Mahle Crank, Cam, and Rod Bearings. Std size.
-Scat H-beam rods. Yes, overkill I know, but I already have them.
-34PICT3 Carb. Currently on my bus. The throttle shaft bushing leaks, I plan on sending it to Volksbitz.
-205Q distributor. Currently on my bus. Probably needs a rebuild, but it works, and the can doesn't leak (so far).

Here’s what I have yet to get, and some initial questions.

-Oil Pump. Robbie said he has a German one for me, or this one: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Schadek-26 ... 07akhd.htm
-Cam and lifters. Don’t know where to buy good ones, as Robbie’s self-destructed and they were from A/C.net
-Rockers. Can I reuse the rockers from my current engine? Anything I should look for to determine if they’re good or bad?
-Pressure Plate. When I asked CB Performance if they would balance my crank and flywheel they said they only balanced them with the PP. So I said “OK, I’ll buy a stock PP too.” They replied “The only stock one we sell is Brazilian and we won’t balance those, they never balance well.” So… I thought I read somewhere that Wolfsburg West sold German PP’s, but it looks like it’s Slovakian. Still good? http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Detai ... 1141025CGR
-Misc case hardware. https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Engine-Ca ... 98-033.htm ,
-Head Studs, ?
-All the other stuff, tins, fan housing, alternator, fuel pump, intake, exhaust, etc, will be taken from the 1600 that’s currently in the bus.

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wcfvw69
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:01 pm

Image

Nothing wrong with a "stock" 1776 engine. Here's mine. Counterbalanced crank and 8 doweled with the rotating assembly balanced. Stock heads with heavy duty springs and heavy duty rocker shafts. Deep sump and full flowed for oil filter. Volkzbitz installed some new shaft bushings on my German Solex 34-3 carb. I restored the 205Q distributor and installed an NOS vacuum can on it. I sourced a NOS domed top Pierburg fuel pump for it. My carb appreciates the 3 psi it provides.

If you're worried about your 205Q, I do have an NOS one for sale. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2001861
I'm actually shocked it hasn't sold yet as you don't see brand new NOS 205Q's for sale, ever.

Tim at Volkzbitz is a great guy who does super work on his carb rebuilds. Highly recommended.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

71whitewesty
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by 71whitewesty » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:36 am

Yeah, I have been real close to buying that 205q from you..... :geek:

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asiab3
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by asiab3 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:53 am

Yes, the current engine has the largest end-play I've ever seen in a car that still drives. I don't think there are any shims in it at all.

Have you considered spending a day to remove the engine and address the end play issue before demoting it to a parts donation block? Timing scatter that fierce will play games with your ability to tune it, and end play is a HUGE cause of timing scatter. (The crankshaft drives the distributor, so as the crank moves, the timing moves that much with it.)

You will need a pressure plate that matches your throw-out bearing setup. There are good ones out there, but I had to buy a few from different people to find the good ones. Do you know if you have a guide sleeve or not on your transaxle?

I have no problem reusing rocket assemblies. A trick for it: Mark which way the shaft comes off, and rotate it 180* for the new installation. After cleaning and polishing it, this will allow the wear surfaces to be in a different spot so it will be like new again.

I don't really have a solid answer for what to do about cams and lifters yet. I will probably go with a manufacturer that sells both as a matched set, like Webcam's stock cam and lifters.

I'm trying to find my receipt for that oil pump, but you'll want to choose your camshaft first before buying an oil pump.

Do you have a gram scale to weigh the pistons? Volkswagen listed specifications for piston balance, but I find free economy and power is available by balancing them to a tighter tolerance. "New" doesn't always mean "ready."

See if your balancing shop will balance the crank, flywheel, pressure plate, and rear pulley. Most shops don't include the rear pulley. Most shops don't get my business. ;)

Good luck, and keep us posted!
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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blue72beetle
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:08 am

asiab3 wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:53 am
Yes, the current engine has the largest end-play I've ever seen in a car that still drives. I don't think there are any shims in it at all.

Have you considered spending a day to remove the engine and address the end play issue before demoting it to a parts donation block? Timing scatter that fierce will play games with your ability to tune it, and end play is a HUGE cause of timing scatter. (The crankshaft drives the distributor, so as the crank moves, the timing moves that much with it.)
I might do that anyway. I was looking forward to to tearing it down and seeing what surprises await me. But I'm not holding out much hope for this one, this is the same engine that the "builder" put the sled tins on backwards.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:37 am

blue72beetle wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:08 am
asiab3 wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:53 am
Yes, the current engine has the largest end-play I've ever seen in a car that still drives. I don't think there are any shims in it at all.

Have you considered spending a day to remove the engine and address the end play issue before demoting it to a parts donation block? Timing scatter that fierce will play games with your ability to tune it, and end play is a HUGE cause of timing scatter. (The crankshaft drives the distributor, so as the crank moves, the timing moves that much with it.)
I might do that anyway. I was looking forward to to tearing it down and seeing what surprises await me. But I'm not holding out much hope for this one, this is the same engine that the "builder" put the sled tins on backwards.


Mentioned above was "heavy-duty" valve springs. Do not succumb to the feverish marketing that wants to pull you into a frankenstein nightmare of their sooper dooper "performance" parts. Get the best quality you can and check against stock specifications, then assemble according to stock specifications and clearances. Of course heavy duty valve springs can tire out your seats and lifters and cam lobes and valve keeper grooves prematurely. You only overwhelm the stock valve train at rpms well past any usability. I shift at about 45 mph 3rd to 4th, because that is pretty much the best pulling spot. Nowhere near valve float territory.

Let us know how many shims you find behind the flywheel. I did an engine in Florida a couple of years ago that had two lowly shims that had worn their little selves out in no time. The builder did not realize that there is a shiny little four-hole mounting spacer that you can put between the flywheel and the end of the crankshaft to give you room to set end play with the required three shims. It is in the gasket kits.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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blue72beetle
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:45 pm

Taking the rods, pistons, crank, flywheel, and pressure plate to the shop on Friday for a balance.
Stupid question: Do I need to bring the gland nut also?

Shopping for case hardware, and I know next to nothing about head studs. Do I need 8mm? 10mm?
Image

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Amskeptic
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:52 pm

blue72beetle wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:45 pm
Taking the rods, pistons, crank, flywheel, and pressure plate to the shop on Friday for a balance.
Stupid question: Do I need to bring the gland nut also?

Shopping for case hardware, and I know next to nothing about head studs. Do I need 8mm? 10mm?

Oh sure, now you come back, I have been sitting here for seven months . . .

Bring the gland nut and the crank pulley and the crank pulley bolt. What brand pressure plate do you have? If Brazilian Crapfest, you actually have to warn them to bring it down so the little tiny index tabs tuck it into place in the flywheel recess. Even so, some of them don't index worth a @!&#$! so it has to be MANUALLY centered. It is pathetic. I hope you have the beefier Sovakian deal with the full perimeter cover.

You need good quality 8mm head studs. They know how to stretch when the engine gets hot. If you are a dualport, there are unequal lengths along the top row.

If Mexican case, check lifter bores for proper clearance with lifters. I got the same lifters as Robbie and an Air-Cooled.Net supplied stock camshaft, and everybody's happy at 27,000 miles of cross-country banzai.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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blue72beetle
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:50 pm

Pressure plate is the Slovakian Sachs.
Stock cam and lifters are coming from Web Cam.
8mm studs and case hardware ordered from A/C.net.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:22 am

blue72beetle wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:50 pm
Pressure plate is the Slovakian Sachs.
Stock cam and lifters are coming from Web Cam.
8mm studs and case hardware ordered from A/C.net.

Ah yes the good ol' days, long ago, 27,000 miles ago in fact:

March 2017

Image
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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blue72beetle
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:16 pm

Finally got these in the mail today.

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blue72beetle
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:53 pm

I called the machine shop today, as I dropped off the stuff about a month ago and haven't heard anything. They haven't even started on it. Said they'd do it this weekend. :/

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Amskeptic
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:58 pm

blue72beetle wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:53 pm
I called the machine shop today, as I dropped off the stuff about a month ago and haven't heard anything. They haven't even started on it. Said they'd do it this weekend. :/
Squeaky wheel. Be the squeaky wheel. Do you know how contaminated parts can get in a machine shop over the months? Wash half to death and dry parts instantly.
Colinnanny
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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blue72beetle
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by blue72beetle » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:18 am

Ok, everything's back and balanced. Next steps?
-Clean everything.
-Clean everything again.
-Clean some more.
-Assemble crank hardware.
-Check rod clearances with plastiguage.
-Assemble case hardware.
-Check and set distributor drive.
-Check cam sprocket backlash.
Correct?

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asiab3
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Re: Stock 1776 Build for 71 Bus

Post by asiab3 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:20 am

Are you following Tom Wilson’s book? It’s excellent. I ignored it once, and forgot half my camshaft bearings. Luckily I did it in front of a few dozen others, and was called out by the good people in the audience. :)

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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