Valve bail diagram/pic

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72Hardtop
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Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
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Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:17 pm

Hey Colin....I recall a pic/diagram awhile back showing the bending point/s for tightening valve bail cover/s. You got that handy?
1972 Westy
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 200 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module & flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK B5ES @ .028
002 Trans
Hankook 185R14's

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Amskeptic
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:35 am

72Hardtop wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:17 pm
Hey Colin....I recall a pic/diagram awhile back showing the bending point/s for tightening valve bail cover/s. You got that handy?
Naw, I am on Rt 22 in NY with nothing handy but words.

IF your bails needed to be expanded to remove them from the cylinder head holes, then bend the corner radii to 90* from sides to across the valve cover. Install so the bends point *upward* (this allows them to lay flat on heat exchangers).

If your bails pretty much slipped out of the cylinder head pivot holes, then you need to bend the sides inwards while holding the lengthwise aspect to the bail firmly.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

72Hardtop
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Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:10 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:35 am
72Hardtop wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:17 pm
Hey Colin....I recall a pic/diagram awhile back showing the bending point/s for tightening valve bail cover/s. You got that handy?
Naw, I am on Rt 22 in NY with nothing handy but words.

IF your bails needed to be expanded to remove them from the cylinder head holes, then bend the corner radii to 90* from sides to across the valve cover. Install so the bends point *upward* (this allows them to lay flat on heat exchangers).

If your bails pretty much slipped out of the cylinder head pivot holes, then you need to bend the sides inwards while holding the lengthwise aspect to the bail firmly.
Colin
Making a mental pic of this...just in from the 90 degree radius (each side) bend towards valve cover (tightens tension on cover).
1972 Westy
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 200 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module & flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK B5ES @ .028
002 Trans
Hankook 185R14's

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sgkent
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by sgkent » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:50 pm

with the gaskets off, and bales down, test fit each cover on the heads. Make sure that rocks as little as possible. This will reduce leaks by it holding the gasket evenly. If the cover is warped, more tension is needed from the bales to hold it in place.

use the best and thickest cork & rubber gasket you can get. New gaskets should be pliable. If they are hard as a rock they have been on a shelf for a long time, are old, and will not seal well.
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

72Hardtop
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Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by 72Hardtop » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Thanks SG...they sit very well on the heads. No leaks thus far. I seem to get roughly 4-6 pop offs of the cover before they need replacing.
1972 Westy
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 200 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module & flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK B5ES @ .028
002 Trans
Hankook 185R14's

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asiab3
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by asiab3 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:49 pm

4-6 "removes" sounds like what I got on my last normal cork pair. There is a new compound of cork gasket on the market; the black "rubber" to cork ratio is much higher, and I got almost 20k miles out of my first pair before the left side gasket cracked and allowed a slow drip. Right side is still going strong around 23k miles.

If anybody finds the darker "more rubber" style for T4, let me know where; I'd like to have a few. I'll put a picture up tomorrow.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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tommu
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by tommu » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:51 am

I used silicone gaskets on the Ghia and they've lasted for dozens of 'removes'. What's the consensus on using them in place of cork?

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asiab3
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by asiab3 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 am

tommu wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:51 am
I used silicone gaskets on the Ghia and they've lasted for dozens of 'removes'. What's the consensus on using them in place of cork?
It depends on the heads, covers, and bails. The two I inspected weren't very thick, so the bales might have to be on the tighter end. Do you use any glues on the cover side, or grease on the head side? I didn't feel confident in them, so I haven't tried.

My consensus? If they work for you, use them! I'm militant about my shellac/cork/grease setup, but I encourage everyone to find what works best for their own cars.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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tommu
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Re: Valve bail diagram/pic

Post by tommu » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:14 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 am
tommu wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:51 am
I used silicone gaskets on the Ghia and they've lasted for dozens of 'removes'. What's the consensus on using them in place of cork?
It depends on the heads, covers, and bails. The two I inspected weren't very thick, so the bales might have to be on the tighter end. Do you use any glues on the cover side, or grease on the head side? I didn't feel confident in them, so I haven't tried.

My consensus? If they work for you, use them! I'm militant about my shellac/cork/grease setup, but I encourage everyone to find what works best for their own cars.

Robbie
These are nice and thick. I used new bails and covers too. They close with a nice 'snap'. Gasket sealant of some kind on one side and just clean silicone on the other. Someone had gouged the heads previously so cork would never seal. The gaskets on the bus are cork and nicely sealed for now.

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