Itinerant Air-Cooled

asiab3 wrote:THall, (and miz!) I have not forgotten about your PMs. Life gets in the way of living sometimes.
Robbie

No worries and thanks, Robbie!
...just frustrating when multiple phone calls, voice mails and e-mails go unanswered...I'm sure THall feels the same way...it makes a disheartening situation worse...we know you'll get over to Vista at some point to give us "proof of life"...

miz

Amskeptic wrote:

THall wrote:I'm still wondering if I have a leaky injector at #4? Should I simply pull it out and and place it in a container still attached to the fuel rail to see if it's dripping?

Did you do the injector plug pull test?
Do the following fun experiment. Dab up some of that liquid onto a paper towel and go light it on fire. If it lights up, OK OK it is fuel. If it just sits there soddenly, it is condensate.
Follow all common sense safety precautions.
Colin

yes, take the fuel soaked paper towel outside and place it on concrete, then light it on fire. Yep, it could be it just needs a re-torque of the heads studs but on a fresh engine dumping fuel into a chamber as it seems the fuel will fine a pathway out beside burning. The head to cylinder seal isn't perfect and it takes some running in for carbon to fill the little spaces so it seals better. I don't like the fuel washing the cylinder down of oil and the rings will hurt the cylinder wall without oil to lube it.

Bleyseng wrote: The head to cylinder seal isn't perfect and it takes some running in for carbon to fill the little spaces so it seals better. I don't like the fuel washing the cylinder down of oil and the rings will hurt the cylinder wall without oil to lube it.

I don't think it is fuel because of the apparent combustion evident in the puff blowing out, the sound of the engine on the video, and the abundant volume of liquid. That cylinder would have fouled the plug by now if that was all gas.
Colin

Time to pull that plug and post a picture

Had very limited time to troubleshoot the bus this weekend, but did perform the following tests.

First off, I let the dripping land on a piece of cardboard. Immediately took it outside and hit it with a lighter. It did ignite.

Amskeptic wrote: FUEL BASED RPM DROP
To affirm that you have a fuel leak at an injector, have a warm idling engine and pull each injector plug one at a time. If the rpms drop, that injector is shutting off. If there is no change in rpm, that injector may be leaking. Pull it and do the Bleyseng leak check.

#1 - engine stalls
#2 - slight rpm drop
#3 - engine stalls
#4 - almost no rpm drop

Amskeptic wrote: IGNITION BASED RPM DROP
Now do each cylinder again, but this time pull the spark plug wire from the distributor cap. If any cylinder does not drop, that cylinder is not participating think more of compression leak.

#1 - engine stalls
#2 - slight rpm drop
#3 - engine stalls
#4 - very slight rpm drop

Despite all of this, it starts up and idles on it's own with just a turn of the key.

I was also able to speak with Adrian on the phone Friday. He viewed the video and believes the issue is a bad injector. He said fuel is so thin that it can escape from the head/cylinder since there is no gasket involved. When asked if a re-torque of the heads would be necessary, he said no.

THall wrote: I was also able to speak with Adrian on the phone Friday.
He viewed the video and believes the issue is a bad injector.
He said fuel is so thin that it can escape from the head/cylinder since there is no gasket involved. When asked if a re-torque of the heads would be necessary, he said no.

Ask Adrian to answer to the clearly evident puff of exhaust.

You can swap #3 and #4 injectors, or heck, test them while they are pulled out. If the fuel leak goes to #3, fine, I will eat my words.
I so very doubt that will be the case.

Based on your rpm drop test, the rear cylinders share a weakness. They share camshaft lobes.

Please, do a compression test.
Colin

(I will happily show Adrian the four out of four exhaust leaks on his 20 mile old engine VW Treasure build)

Amskeptic wrote: You can swap #3 and #4 injectors, or heck, test them while they are pulled out. If the fuel leak goes to #3, fine, I will eat my words.

I was able to swap the 3/4 injectors and the leak did indeed appear to follow the injector. I still had a slight drip from #4, but much less than I previously had. But, I also had a drip or two from #3 now.

Adrian told me that he will be sending me a new injector to install....we'll see what happens.

Another question I have is in regard to the TS2. My tin is so close to where it screws in at #3 that is doesn't fully make contact with the head as it hits the tin. In testing, I think I'm at the high end of the range for the AFC manual and high according to Bentley. But, not sure based on my ambient temperature.

My garage was at an approximate ambient temp of 64-65F and probing pin 13 on the CPU connector I was reading 2.9k Ohms. Would that be enough to cause an overly rich starting condition? If yes, would it be a good idea to try and dremel the tin enough to provide the clearance necessary to fully seat the sensor to the head?

Amskeptic wrote:Please, do a compression test.

I haven't had a chance to do the compression test yet, but I plan to do so.

THall wrote:

Amskeptic wrote: You can swap #3 and #4 injectors, or heck, test them while they are pulled out. If the fuel leak goes to #3, fine, I will eat my words.

I was able to swap the 3/4 injectors and the leak did indeed appear to follow the injector. I still had a slight drip from #4, but much less than I previously had. But, I also had a drip or two from #3 now.

Adrian told me that he will be sending me a new injector to install....we'll see what happens.

Another question I have is in regard to the TS2. My tin is so close to where it screws in at #3 that is doesn't fully make contact with the head as it hits the tin. In testing, I think I'm at the high end of the range for the AFC manual and high according to Bentley. But, not sure based on my ambient temperature.

My garage was at an approximate ambient temp of 64-65F and probing pin 13 on the CPU connector I was reading 2.9k Ohms. Would that be enough to cause an overly rich starting condition? If yes, would it be a good idea to try and dremel the tin enough to provide the clearance necessary to fully seat the sensor to the head?

Amskeptic wrote:Please, do a compression test.

I haven't had a chance to do the compression test yet, but I plan to do so.

When the engine is dead cold, the seating of the TS 2 is immaterial Everything is the same temperature. At 68*, the TS 2 is normally at 2,500 ohms. I think yours is well within acceptable tolerances. But yes, dremel the tin away from the hole. Perhaps later, you will ask why the tin interferes in the first place . . .

Any of these damn drips are totally unacceptable. I have never had gasoline dripping out of the cylinders in my life.
Great, cylinder #3 and #4 leak. Got it. Not ready to eat my words.
Adrian is sending you an injector. I hope that is not his sign-off token gesture.

If we still have drips by June 19th, I will pull the rocker assemblies off and check the torque on the lower head nuts myself.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: Adrian is sending you an injector. I hope that is not his sign-off token gesture.

I doubt it...I think it is a genuine effort to make a customer happy and try to solve a problem before the engine gets removed and sent back (again). This is my guess, based upon my experience: he sent me new carb pencils to try to solve a supposed over-fueling problem...we know where it ultimately led, in my case, but the gesture and the intentions were sincere in my opinion.
miz

the miz wrote:

Amskeptic wrote: Adrian is sending you an injector. I hope that is not his sign-off token gesture.

I doubt it...I think it is a genuine effort to make a customer happy and try to solve a problem before the engine gets removed and sent back (again). This is my guess, based upon my experience: he sent me new carb pencils to try to solve a supposed over-fueling problem...we know where it ultimately led, in my case, but the gesture and the intentions were sincere in my opinion.
miz

When your engine was drowning in fuel and *not starting* as a result, did you have fuel dripping out from your cylinders?

This is where I am stuck . . .

Amskeptic wrote: When your engine was drowning in fuel and *not starting* as a result, did you have fuel dripping out from your cylinders?

This is where I am stuck . . .

...admittedly, no. Furthermore, in light of THall's issue, I was somewhat relieved to hear that Adrian reportedly did *not* have to remove the cylinder heads to replace my cam (stay tuned for more on that in my thread). I really think Adrian is trying to solve THall's issue without having to take the engine back, if possible. I think he's willing to try almost anything not to have to take an engine back, even if the injector is a red herring, as were my carb pencils.

miz

the miz wrote:I was somewhat relieved to hear that Adrian reportedly did *not* have to remove the cylinder heads to replace my cam (stay tuned for more on that in my thread).

This is interesting . . . .
Colin

Amskeptic wrote:

the miz wrote:I was somewhat relieved to hear that Adrian reportedly did *not* have to remove the cylinder heads to replace my cam (stay tuned for more on that in my thread).

This is interesting . . . .
Colin

I swear that's what he said...he continued: for this reason that the engine would not need to be broken in again.
I'll try to clarify what all he's done when he's ready to ship back...which will hopefully happen before your visit this year.
miz

the miz wrote:

Amskeptic wrote:

the miz wrote:I was somewhat relieved to hear that Adrian reportedly did *not* have to remove the cylinder heads to replace my cam (stay tuned for more on that in my thread).

This is interesting . . . .
Colin

I swear that's what he said...he continued: for this reason that the engine would not need to be broken in again.
I'll try to clarify what all he's done when he's ready to ship back...which will hopefully happen before your visit this year.
miz

He removed the cylinder barrels with the pistons remaining inside so as not to disturb the ring break-in, yes, I do that too. But the heads, the pistons and cylinders, and the case halves all would have to be disassembled.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: He removed the cylinder barrels with the pistons remaining inside so as not to disturb the ring break-in, yes, I do that too. But the heads, the pistons and cylinders, and the case halves all would have to be disassembled.
Colin

Thanks Colin, that makes sense. That's probably what he did...it just wasn't explained quite that way.
Miz