The weaker cases, poorer cooling setup make High hp/torque Type 1 motors a poor choice for a 4000lb bus.VWinVT wrote:1. I always thought it was horsepower that allowed you to maintain speed on hills.dingo wrote:1. hill climbing is an important issue....but does that not relate to torque instead of horsepower ?
2. How does an engine builder make money building Type 4 engines to the expectation of owners/drivers ? and still be cheaper than Subbie ? There is the rapidly decreasing availability of good factory parts, the aftermarket sub-quality uberkrap and/or used parts....which itself takes so much time and meticulous micro inspection just to verify usability ? Installation, shipping, warranty, returns...it is obviouosly a sustainable business or it wouldnt exist, but still, it boggles my mind...what am i missing in this picture ?
2. I don't get it either....the type 1 motors have many quality options and can be modified to make lots of HP...maybe we should be putting those motors in our busses....
Horsepower vs Torque - Split Topic
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Horsepower vs Torque - Split Topic
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
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77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
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Re: Hold Off On Headflow Masters Engines
1. Without filling our forums with gobbledygook, horsepower is a function of torque.
to simplify your gobbledygook..
Horsepower is a function of torque AND rpm.
Torque is a function of cylinder pressure and crank stroke
so when climbing a hill, whats your rpm ? and how much does your engine rely upon it (type 1 more, late type 4 less)
to simplify your gobbledygook..
Horsepower is a function of torque AND rpm.
Torque is a function of cylinder pressure and crank stroke
so when climbing a hill, whats your rpm ? and how much does your engine rely upon it (type 1 more, late type 4 less)
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp
';78 Tranzporter 2L
" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."
';78 Tranzporter 2L
" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."
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Re: Hold Off On Headflow Masters Engines
Depends on how you are going up the hill . . .VWinVT wrote: I always thought it was horsepower that allowed you to maintain speed on hills.
Staying in 4th gear at 50 mph on a hill because you can, is using the greater torque of the Type 4 engine.
Downshifting into 3rd at 50 mph and screaming up the hill at 4,600 rpm with a Type 1 engine, is utilizing the horsepower.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- dingo
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Re: Hold Off On Headflow Masters Engines
Does the dependance on RPM compromise engine longevity ?
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp
';78 Tranzporter 2L
" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."
';78 Tranzporter 2L
" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."
- asiab3
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Re: Hold Off On Headflow Masters Engines
dingo wrote:Does the dependance on RPM compromise engine longevity ?
Do you mean, "does a faster crankshaft RPM compromise engine longevity?"
Yes, generally. If you run a VW T1 engine at 5,500 RPM all day, you'll destroy something. If you don't destroy anything on the cooling fan/generator shaft, you'll pound out the bearings and saddles. If you run an Indy car engine at 5,000 RPM all day, it might not even break in fully. So it depends on the engine, and how you run it. The T4 power plant produces more horsepower higher up the RPM range. Where a T1 reaches its peak horsepower somewhere around 4,400-ish, a T4 engine (depending on build [914/bus/411]) will reach it in the ballpark of 5,000. Actual figures may vary. VW was clever with their gearing; if you hit the maximum horsepower output in one gear and then upshift, you will hit the maximum torque output in the next gear up. This is shown when the owners manual says something like "you may briefly exceed these [maximum] speeds for maximum acceleration." Colin detailed it excellently in the "shift points" articles on this site in the vehicle forums.
Robbie
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145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
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Re: Hold Off On Headflow Masters Engines
Now that I read this, it makes perfect sense. I've always wondered y I can let the rpm's lag down In 4th going up a hill and it will usually hold speed at about 42mph with low rpm's. Not to mention the CHT's tend to,like this 'torquey' driving too.asiab3 wrote:dingo wrote:Does the dependance on RPM compromise engine longevity ?
Do you mean, "does a faster crankshaft RPM compromise engine longevity?"
Yes, generally. If you run a VW T1 engine at 5,500 RPM all day, you'll destroy something. If you don't destroy anything on the cooling fan/generator shaft, you'll pound out the bearings and saddles. If you run an Indy car engine at 5,000 RPM all day, it might not even break in fully. So it depends on the engine, and how you run it. The T4 power plant produces more horsepower higher up the RPM range. Where a T1 reaches its peak horsepower somewhere around 4,400-ish, a T4 engine (depending on build [914/bus/411]) will reach it in the ballpark of 5,000. Actual figures may vary. VW was clever with their gearing; if you hit the maximum horsepower output in one gear and then upshift, you will hit the maximum torque output in the next gear up. This is shown when the owners manual says something like "you may briefly exceed these [maximum] speeds for maximum acceleration." Colin detailed it excellently in the "shift points" articles on this site in the vehicle forums.
Robbie