Type 2 mufflers

[JLT]

And, yes, I've read all the pertinent posts on the subject here, and on the Samba, and elsewhere.

It's new muffler time for George again (1600 stock engine, '71 bus), and unless anybody can steer me to a better deal, I guess I'm going with the Bus Depot stock muffler. Is it really worth it to give it an extra paint job, or should I just be content with replacing the muffler every five years or so anyway? I'm in central California, where rust isn't an issue.

[Amskeptic]

And, yes, I've read all the pertinent posts on the subject here, and on the Samba, and elsewhere.

It's new muffler time for George again (1600 stock engine, '71 bus), and unless anybody can steer me to a better deal, I guess I'm going with the Bus Depot stock muffler. Is it really worth it to give it an extra paint job, or should I just be content with replacing the muffler every five years or so anyway? I'm in central California, where rust isn't an issue.

Leistritz seems to be decent. I, too, do not know if the paint helps prolong the life of the muffler. I do not run the engine if I cannot get the exhaust well above the boiling point of condensate. That helps it last.
Colin

[airkooledchris]

The fancy SS ones from Vintage Speed out of Taiwan seem to have been holding up well for folks. In your area you should be able to get a lot more mileage out of it to boot.

[Bleyseng]

Those fancy SS ones from Taiwan don't have a way to run heat I thought so I didn't even consider them. The stockish one I got from Germany should last 10 yrs which is good enough for me.

[asiab3]

The BusDepot "best available" one for $150ish +/- was Ernst when I bought it last year. (I do not know of any Leistritz T1 bus mufflers.) The paint that came on it looked nice when I installed it, and peeled to a pink primer the first time I got it warmed up. After that a little bit of paint peeled off every time I drove it, until the whole thing was covered with surface rust. I had it professionally sand blasted then I coated it with the VHT system immediately. It's held up hundreds of times better now. I would never bother trying to run the paint on it; I think that's just to prevent surface rust during transit.

As far as fitment goes, the Ernst was fairly poor. The #2/4 exhaust manifolds lines up well, the heat risers a little less so, and the #1/3 heat exchanger clamp pipes a little less than that. The #2/4 "kidney" exchangers did NOT line up with anything resembling a Volkswagen engine. I ripped all the pinch seems open and tweaked each pod by hand to align, then beat the clamps back shut and added exhaust putty to seal them up. They're still not straight, but they function.

My Vintage Speed muffler did not have correct preheat for a single carb, so it was undrivable in winter. I contacted them, and the owner said they can do the correct in/out piping for $40 extra. WELL worth it in my opinion. The sound is nice, though a little louder than stock. My CHTs were consistently lower with it, though my fuel milage went down 2-4mpg on every tank. I think the increased flow is pulling more fuel through the engine, and the carb icing is inefficient. More tuning and proper pipes could probably bring it back up, but I chickened out and went back to stock. Fitment wise, it was hands down the best fitting part I've ever put on the bus outside of OG '69 NOS and used parts. Perfect alignment all the way around leaves less stress on the connections which help maintain a leak-free system. The heat hoses also attach directly to the #1/3 main heat exchangers. This allows more volume of heater air to reach the cabin, though I feel it is not quite as hot.

These are just my observations on those two. I think in a mildly warm climate like Sacramento you'd be happy with either. Vintage Speed also mentioned that they're releasing a stock style and sound bug muffler this month, and a T1 bus muffler is due to follow this spring.

Robbie

[Amskeptic]

The BusDepot "best available" one for $150ish +/- was Ernst when I bought it last year. (I do not know of any Leistritz T1 bus mufflers.)
As far as fitment goes, the Ernst was fairly poor. The #2/4 exhaust manifolds lines up well, the heat risers a little less so, and the #1/3 heat exchanger clamp pipes a little less than that. The #2/4 "kidney" exchangers did NOT line up with anything resembling a Volkswagen engine. I ripped all the pinch seems open and tweaked each pod by hand to align, then beat the clamps back shut and added exhaust putty to seal them up. They're still not straight, but they function.

From October 26:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=12292#p210740

It is an aftermarket Ernst, and the collars had a terrible time lining up. Basically, you have to break the little exchangers loose from their grip on the #2 and #4 pipes and slide them up or down a tad whilst rotating so the fresh air hoses are centered in the tins. The heat riser had a time of it getting aligned as well. These mufflers used to fit! Back in the day, boy.

Oh yeah, I meant "Ernst".
So, anyway, I have to go meet with those lawyers from Leistritz to answer to their slander and defamation lawsuit.

[asiab3]

(I do not know of any Leistritz T1 bus mufflers.)

Ooh ooh ooh! I rescind my original statement.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-BUG-bus-STOC ... 90&vxp=mtr

Says "3 available." I'll be buying one and reporting back in 2018 when this engine is done.

There's also a "1200" Bus exhaust on TS classifieds, I can't find part numbers to cross reference, anybody know offhand if that is the same? I know the 1500/1600 mufflers are.

Robbie

[JLT]

Yeah, that paint thing.

From what I can read, the consensus is that the original paint is just for protection until the thing is sold. After that, it seems to fall into two camps:

1. You must spend at least an extra $100 or so to have it properly painted with whatever high-tech, exotic finish you can find in your area. This will make the exhaust system last twice as long.

2. Don't do it, it's a waste of money because the inside will be deteriorating at least as fast as the outside will, and the lifespan of the exhaust system won't be appreciably lengthened, athough the failed parts will still look pretty. (But Colin said somewhere ... I can't put my finger on it ... that if you properly warmitup and don't start driving until the muffler is toasty, interior rust won't be an issue.)

I've never painted my stock mufflers, so I don't have anything to compare them to.

[Amskeptic]

Yeah, that paint thing.
(But Colin said somewhere ... I can't put my finger on it ... that if you properly warmitup and don't start driving until the muffler is toasty, interior rust won't be an issue.)

What Colin said somewhere is that if you properly warm it up and don't STOP driving until the muffler is toasty, interior rust won't be a(s much of an) issue.

[Amskeptic]

(I do not know of any Leistritz T1 bus mufflers.)

Ooh ooh ooh! I rescind my original statement.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-BUG-bus-STOC ... 90&vxp=mtr

Says "3 available." I'll be buying one and reporting back in 2018 when this engine is done.

There's also a "1200" Bus exhaust on TS classifieds, I can't find part numbers to cross reference, anybody know offhand if that is the same? I know the 1500/1600 mufflers are.

Robbie

Seller is a little confused with his nomenclature.

Way way long ago, beetle and bus had same single outlet on right 1200

Bug/Ghia mufflers have two outlets with:
no rear exchangers (pre-63)
with rear exchangers (63-73)

Bus muffler has single outlet left
no exchangers (pre-63)
with rear exchangers (63-71)

[JLT]

What Colin said somewhere is that if you properly warm it up and don't STOP driving until the muffler is toasty, interior rust won't be a(s much of an) issue.

(Using Emily Litella voice)
Oh. That's very different.
Never mind.

(Back to JLT voice)

I guess that's not too much of an issue for George, since he isn't usually a daily driver, and accumulates most of his mileage on long distant trips.

[JLT]

A bit of a follow-up

I ended up buying a muffler from Bus Depot. I got it the Monday before Buses by the Bridge, and installed it the next day. I found that the muffler I got was not an "exact replacement" in that the two little globes didn't have the extensions to attach the fresh air tubes that connect the muffler to the fan housing. At that point, I really couldn't send the muffler back, so I just improvised some fittings that allowed me to hook the tubes up and off I went. Other than that particular detail, the muffler fit well.

I told the Bus Depot about the discrepancy, and they thought that it might have been the wrong part, although my '71 bus has a stock engine and the part I got was described as fitting a '71 on their web site. So if you're ordering one from them, be sure to let them know what the part number of your present muffler is, and ensure that the attachment points for the tubes are present on your muffler.

[kreemoweet]

Those little connectors are not part of the muffler, they're separate parts. Part #113-255-165, "Connection Pipe", 2 needed.

[JLT]

Thanks for pointing that out. What's puzzling is that

1. they sure looked like they were part of the original muffler to me ... they wouldn't come out when I yanked at them, and

2. IIRC (and I probably don't) they were part of the muffler when I bought it five or six years ago.

Maybe I didn't use enough Liquid Wrench on them when I tried to extract them from the muffler.

[Amskeptic]

Thanks for pointing that out. What's puzzling is that

1. they sure looked like they were part of the original muffler to me ... they wouldn't come out when I yanked at them, and

2. IIRC (and I probably don't) they were part of the muffler when I bought it five or six years ago.

Maybe I didn't use enough Liquid Wrench on them when I tried to extract them from the muffler.

Naw them collars they aint never come on no muffler.
Colin GrammarSchmammer