Cooling cylinders and heads...

[jimbear]

So, I have an idea, the details of which I will hold close to my chest for now. But, the jist in the form of questions...

On a properly tuned and well running engine (of any model air cooled) is there a need, or would there be a benefit to, keeping the head and cylinder temps lowered via a manual cooling process? Or, in the instance of Colin's recent temp issues (just as an example) would you want a method to intervene with nature and lower those temps even though they may be a symptom of a larger problem? Think of it as a temporary fix in keeping the temps low.

I have been kicking around an idea (that has nothing to do with water) that in minimally invasive and would provide for the scenarios mentioned above. Thoughts and input welcomed.

[airkooledchris]

need? probably not. (because the real issues should be addressed, or other workarounds employed)

a benefit to? sure. if it works, then it works. I care more about making it work than doing it by the book. we aren't working with the same parts that they were, and should be forgiven our own solutions.

[asiab3]

On my engine, no. Because I know how it responds when it's tuned and operating at it's peak. When I see higher numbers, I question wind, hill grade, load, and changes I've made. After that I begin to question a problem. I do not want to mask problems, but I do want to prevent and solve them.

I do not want to pry or ask you to share more than you want, but allow me to play devil's advocate here.... How could we alert you of any unknown catastrophic failure potential without any information. I know that nearly every "improvement" we make has either:
A) unintended consequences
or
B) been considered by the engineers who built these cars. (The common accepted exceptions (aren't words fun?) are emission control devices that encourage lean burning and hotter running. This includes the '73-'74 dual carb bus smog pump, and a few other devices, but no emissions device on an upright engine bus effects any meaningful temperature change.)

Robbie

[jimbear]

This would be a 'strap on' solution inspired by some time working in a plastics factory years ago.

[asiab3]

This would be a 'strap on' solution inspired by some time working in a plastics factory years ago.

Like cooling channels through a mold block, but pipes through the cooling fins?

I think we're at an end of how we can help the process. We can pretty much give opinions weather we'd want it or not, but I guess that's what you asked originally, right?

No thanks, I like the smell of a borderline hot and pissed off Type 1 after a desert flog. But only borderline.

Robbie

[jimbear]

I really am thinking simple. Totally outside of the casecylindersheadsvalvecoversfeuldelivery....

Would a general temperature decrease help on a well running engine?

[jimbear]

Could there be something the engineers did not think about?

[asiab3]

I really am thinking simple. Totally outside of the casecylindersheadsvalvecoversfeuldelivery....

Would a general temperature decrease help on a well running engine?

Perhaps. It probably depends how. Doing something like super-chillling the cooling air would also supercool the intake air, which might create too much of a contrast in temperatures between intake and exhaust valves, which could leak to stresses and cracking. So there is ALWAYS something else to think about.

Could there be something the engineers did not think about?

Sure! I don't know what they thought, do you? But I bet any solution they had must have been analyzed according to its benefit or harm in emissions, power, reliability, cost, and more. For example, you could have a VW with no oil cooler. It would be a few bucks cheaper to make. But you would HAVE to stop every twenty minutes of highway driving to let the oil cool back to an acceptable level. Is that acceptable? In no way at all. So these cars HAVE to be drivable like any other car in the world.

Robbie

[Amskeptic]

So, I have an idea, the details of which I will hold close to my chest for now. But, the jist in the form of questions...

On a properly tuned and well running engine (of any model air cooled) is there a need, or would there be a benefit to, keeping the head and cylinder temps lowered via a manual cooling process?

A properly tuned and (proper grammar says use the word) "good"-running engine would not need head and cylinder temps lowered. A sick engine might need an assist, but a sick engine needs to be pulled over.

Let's say I saw 535* on my Dakota Digital gauge. That is terrible. I did *not* want to cool the engine down any faster than it naturally did for exactly the reason asiab3 mentioned . . . thermal shock leads to cracks and, (get this Robbie) you must let the engine heat and cool in a synchronized way. If you did Extrakool the cylinders when the pistons were hot hot hot, you would seize the engine as the cylinders contracted. International Harvester V-8 engines had an interesting one where at the end of a long hot hill climb, the downhill would seize their engines. WTF, right? Well, the pistons would contract as they cooled, but the sizzling hot crankshaft pumped heat up the connecting rods and would seize the wrist pins in the too-cooled pistons. It is such an amazing thing that this stuff works at all, but yes, the engineers have done their homework with VW engines, and if you have a properly tuned and good-running engine, you get to just drive it. I enjoy hot temps in my engines in the desert . . . everything is equally hot AND I am enjoying a self-cleaning cycle in the heads where the carbon is getting burned off the valves and exhaust track. A hot engine on a 40* day, now that makes me nervous.
Colin

[72Hardtop]

This (Thermal shock) is why a thermostat is also very important (for those who think they dont need one).

[Amskeptic]

This (Thermal shock) is why a thermostat is also very important (for those who think they dont need one).

Today it is 53* and windy and uber flood watch rainy in Ohio. So why does my bus decide to whang me with 426* CHTs?
Wait, I'll tell you.
This cow is hankering to be ground into burger.
Colin
(maybe my thermostat lever disassembled itself? Will check if the rain lets up)