In need of type 4 case

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energyturtle
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In need of type 4 case

Post by energyturtle » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:14 pm

I bought a long block 1700. I split the case to prep for the rebuild and found the dreaded type 4 syndrome. Someone had also (by drilling I assume) put a case bolt all the way through the oil pick up tube boss and out the second case half and sealed with crush washers and permatex. It did not look to have leaked any oil through this hack job. All the internals were in great shape and very reusable including heads. I will not use this case, so here I am trying to source a good case that does not need align-boring. I will post pics later for all to see it's pretty crazy. Any help is greatly appreciated. I live in East Tennessee so finding parts is rough to say the least.

Scottie

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Amskeptic
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:32 am

energyturtle wrote: Someone had put a case bolt all the way through the oil pick up tube boss and out the second case half and sealed with crush washers and permatex. It did not look to have leaked any oil through this hack job. All the internals were in great shape and very reusable including heads.
I will post pics later for all to see it's pretty crazy.
Scottie
Did the cam saddle flange break off? That is the only *problem* with the syndrome.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

Boxcar
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Boxcar » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:29 am

Sounds like subject case was in serviceable shape?

that it possibly require less work costs than purch and shipping of another?

Len Hoffman is over in Georgia hes a machinst, who speaks T4.
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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energyturtle
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by energyturtle » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:55 am

Here are some pics.
Image
Image

Boxcar
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Boxcar » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:32 am

I would only offer one thing about the P/O bodge/damaged area. is ask a machinist.

Since it is so nice and apart, also having each half case deck dimension checked, that damage repaired,maybe YOU tap and plug oil gallery drilling points?

you probably know Case Deck dimension distorts over time. (machined surfaces at the barrel mounting points, maybe just thickness of a human hair? or two? or three?for flatness,paralellism,and equidistances between the case halves from the crank CL/case to case mating s is really good to confirm. Making for good sealing of combustion chambers and basic good stuff like this.
Even on the cases you might buy.

my 2¢.

Im betting your Bus is very glad IT found YOU;)
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

Boxcar
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Boxcar » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:05 am

Amskeptic wrote:
energyturtle wrote: Someone had put a case bolt all the way through the oil pick up tube boss and out the second case half and sealed with crush washers and permatex. It did not look to have leaked any oil through this hack job. All the internals were in great shape and very reusable including heads.
I will post pics later for all to see it's pretty crazy.
Scottie
Did the cam saddle flange break off? That is the only *problem* with the syndrome.
Colin
Cam Saddles breaking?
Often?in the experience of the mighty Itinerant One?
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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energyturtle
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by energyturtle » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:12 am

I found an EA code short block locally for under a 100.00, so we are back in business. I also got a warranty from the seller. When I split the case, if things aren't legit, I return the case for a refund.

Scottie

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Bleyseng
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:02 am

EA is a good strong case actually stronger than the GD,GE cases.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Amskeptic
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:29 am

Bleyseng wrote:EA is a good strong case actually stronger than the GD,GE cases.
Change in metallurgy?
Different casting?
Colin?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Amskeptic
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:34 am

Boxcar wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
energyturtle wrote: Someone had put a case bolt all the way through the oil pick up tube boss and out the second case half and sealed with crush washers and permatex. It did not look to have leaked any oil through this hack job. All the internals were in great shape and very reusable including heads.
I will post pics later for all to see it's pretty crazy.
Scottie
Did the cam saddle flange break off? That is the only *problem* with the syndrome.
Colin
Cam Saddles breaking?
Often?in the experience of the mighty Itinerant One?
The "mighty itinerant one" aka "That Hack Who Drives In Circles" has happened across three syndromes in twelve years. In the energyturtle photographs, the cam saddle is intact, the case looks repairable enough.
When the cam saddle breaks (where the bearing shell sits), the repair is likely to distort the area and I do not personally know of successful cam saddle boring of a repaired area. It may very well become a repairable option when the prices of these cases double or triple . . . :blackeye:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by 72Hardtop » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:30 pm

Bleyseng wrote:EA is a good strong case actually stronger than the GD,GE cases.

The CB case would be even better...in fact the best in term of the T-4 cases.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
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002 3 rib trans
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Amskeptic
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:28 pm

72Hardtop wrote:
Bleyseng wrote:EA is a good strong case actually stronger than the GD,GE cases.

The CB case would be even better...in fact the best in term of the T-4 cases.
Why? The Type 4 case had revisions to the castings to strengthen the cam gear end of the camshaft bearing saddles and they created more of a pool for the gears to pick up oil. I do not at which point they did this, because I first saw it in a factory new replacement case.

What makes you think that the CB cases were better? (they are the fuel pump pushrod hole equipped cases)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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energyturtle
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by energyturtle » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:22 pm

Found an excellent case that had never been opened. All the internals as well as the heads are at the machine shop(Yes he is good). Will be posting photos of the entire build. Here we go again.

Scottie

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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:22 am

energyturtle wrote:Will be posting photos of the entire build. Here we go again.
Scottie
We have another customer who might be looking for a good case and will be doing a rebuild. Jivermo may be interested in your case search results . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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energyturtle
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Re: In need of type 4 case

Post by energyturtle » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:34 pm

We have another customer who might be looking for a good case and will be doing a rebuild. Jivermo may be interested in your case search results . . .
Colin
I sourced the new case locally from a friend in our local bus community, I still have the type 4 syndromed case. I also have a complete 1.7 with most of the tins minus heat exchangers, with the shroud and alt. in fantastic cosmetic condition. It was pulled running a short time ago with no obvious oil leaks. The owner said it lacked power and had a miss. Probably could be tuned out. He was a first time bus owner from a very wealthy neighborhood in Nashville and knew nothing about buses except he wanted one and his pocket depth had no limits. The bus it was pulled out of was a pristine 73 westy that he bought out of texas for 15000.00. With that being said I cannot verify the state of the engine as I have never heard it run, and have not touched it other than to pick it up and bring it home. Like I said it is CLEAN eye candy at this point. I can source another case as well. PM in me if my assistance is needed.

From one brother to another
Scottie :salute:

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