No End Play.

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Amskeptic
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:58 pm

ruckman101 wrote: Yet you prefer .004 thousands of an inch, rather than the .005 to .007 Bentley calls for. But .002 or even a touch less is out of the ball park for such a narrow spec.


So it goes. I guess I can paint my mustache bar. And thanks.


neal
Neal, I am going to keep screaming and heckling, because I have to represent, I have to be the poster child for us 54 year-olds, we are not doddering dopey idiots, YET!
You go back to that Bentley and if you tell me that it calls for .005" to .007", I will bite your head off.
I refuse to waste my time editing your posts, correcting them and putting actual Bentley specifications in BOLD, if people are going to wantonly and willfully misread them.

The actual specification is .0027" to .005" with a wear limit of .006" I LIKE .003" MAX but you have to be clean and accurate!!
And thanks for the beer you are going to buy me at the LuckyLab or wherever else when I get out there.
Hell, I'll drink two.
:drunken:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:04 pm

No worries, you're spot on. I have been horrifically miscreant in attention to exactitude which helps no one. The numbers blurred trying to juggle conversions between two standards for me.

Bentley indeed says .003" to .005" (.07 to .13 mm). I'm probably going to be forever yanking my bottom pulley fretting of hitting the wear limit with this engine now. Or at least more frequently than in the past, which was never.


Full on pitcher for you!
neal
The slipper has no teeth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:53 pm

ruckman101 wrote: I have been horrifically miscreant in attention to exactitude which helps no one.

Full on pitcher for you!
neal
Exquisite sentence there . . .
Colin

:occasion5:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:22 pm

I have my moments.


neal
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ruckman101
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:24 pm

New spacer, same thing, had to gently file a bit on the outside of the holes for the crankshaft dowels on it for it to slide on flat and crease free. Was stuck between a solid .005" and .002". Finally got to a scant over .004" using three shims measured at .30, .22 and .22 mm.

The spacer measured .20 mm. End play with no shims or spacer was .028". Does that all add up? I think it did.

.20 mm is .0078", so .008", added to .028" brings us to .036" of end play with no shims. Aiming for .004", so shims should add up to .032". Added up the three total .74 mm, which is .029".

Nope, doesn't add up. .003" off. There are many small variables. Every measurement +/- variables. And I didn't actually measure the end play without the shims and with the spacer, just added the number. Measuring each shim individually rarely added up to the measurement of the three stacked. Tended to be a larger number. Rationalize, right?

My palms are bruised from jolting the pulley back before pulling forward. All this was done with the flywheel torqued to final torque of 261 f/lbs.

Last dire question. Should I be using new shims rather than used?

How much variance would there be if I were making these adjustments in the heat of summer rather than the chill of winter? I'll chill now.


neal
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Xelmon
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Xelmon » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:07 am

Ran an equation. Assuming linear expansion - thin enough -, only in axial direction, comes to about 0.000,000,5 mm

I wouldn't be worried.

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hambone
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Re: No End Play.

Post by hambone » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:30 am

I found that adding the numbers doesn't add up, you just have to mock it up and check.
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Amskeptic
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:35 pm

ruckman101 wrote: End play with no shims or spacer was .028".
new shims used?
I never care about that "endplay with no shims. I throw in three shims from wherever. What is the endplay?
I add or subtract shim thicknesses as necessary. Generally, my supply is getting thinner as people need thicker.
Easy. Simple.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:26 pm

Were that it so easy and simple. My scant .004" must have been wishful thinking. It's .005" now. And working in 26 degree weather is challenging.

neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:51 pm

ruckman101 wrote:Were that it so easy and simple. My scant .004" must have been wishful thinking. It's .005" now. And working in 26 degree weather is challenging.

neal
Based on above, if you currently have .22/.22/.30 in there, a .22/.27/.30 mm shim group would give you a .003" end play.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:10 pm

Things were cold. No matter what combo I put in, a reading of .000 was what I got. With the flywheel off, I gave the pulley a pull strong tug. Nothing. Then I braced and leaned into pulling on the pulley and did finally feel some play slow like molasses.

I went inside. I'm spoiled by the temperate rain forest biosphere I live in, and with a third day of maybe breaking freezing daytime high temperatures, I'm not doing much. Five minutes and my hands start to ache, then lose feeling.

Gets much colder most everywhere but here, so I feel like a whiner and wimp, figure everyone is boo-hooing the still relatively temperate "deep freeze" in comparison. "Ooohhhh, what I wouldn't give to have a toasty 26 degrees to work in!"

Oh dang, I lapsed non-tech.

From a technical standpoint I'm waiting for some balmy 40 degree weather. A few days. The other option is burning propane to create a heat pocket to work in. No need, not that big a hurry.


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:18 am

ruckman101 wrote:With the flywheel off, I gave the pulley a pull strong tug. Nothing. Then I braced and leaned into pulling on the pulley and did finally feel some play slow like molasses.
With the flywheel off, that crankshaft should easily float back and forth a good 1/4". . . .
??Colin??
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:58 am

Not in this cold.


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: No End Play.

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:08 pm

ruckman101 wrote:Not in this cold.

neal
Cold enough to what, sludge the oil? If that crankshaft cannot easily bang back and forth without the flywheel on (we're not talking about rotation), it makes me very nervous.

Do you have a used engine sitting around somewhere that you can test just how far the crankshaft should be able to bang back and forth without the flywheel? Do you have a friend/acquaintance/nearby shop (Halsey?) where you can do a no-flywheel-bang-the-crankshaft-back-and-forth comparison before you even think of starting the engine?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Location: Up next to a volcano.
Contact:
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Re: No End Play.

Post by ruckman101 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:05 pm

Thick, sludgy grease because of the cold. It moves, but takes effort, a strong steady pull and it oozes. But when checking the end play, it resisted moving those bitty incrementals. Been in the high twenties for daytime high temperatures for quite a spell now. And looks to be for a bit more. I'm confident it will be fine once the weather warms up. No issues until it got cold.


neal
The slipper has no teeth.

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