Sussing engine parts viability.

[ruckman101]

Why does that not make sense? How does .020 translate to .500?

Although your numbers reflect my case measurements, suggesting that all of them are still viable, although I've heard the fourth align bore is shunned by many.


neal

[Amskeptic]

Why does that not make sense? How does .020 translate to .500?

Although your numbers reflect my case measurements, suggesting that all of them are still viable, although I've heard the fourth align bore is shunned by many.


neal

.020" = allegedly .50mm but in fact, US/Imperial measurement misses the true metric more and more as your under/oversizes increase. By the time you are at the fourth cut, the US/Imperial size is getting sloppy.


Main Bearings Saddle Diameter
INSIDE DIAMETER
Standard 55.00mm 2.165"
1st Undersize 54.75mm 2.155"
2nd Undersize 54.50mm 2.145"
3rd Undersize 54.25mm 2.135"
4th Undersize 54.00mm 2.125"

OUTSIDE DIAMETER
Standard 65mm 2.560"
1st Oversize 65.50mm 2.580"
2nd Oversize 66.00mm 2.600"
3rd Oversize 66.50mm 2.620"
4th Oversize 67.00mm 2.640"

You can obtainvpermutations of each oversize/undersize to meet your needs.
Colin

[ruckman101]

Doh!!!!
Conflicting measurement standards. I can see clearly now.

I like it. Bertha's original case was working a third align bore. And could potentially survive another. If you want to go there. I caught flack doing a third, and Ashley of Always V-Dub suggested the third was the last one to do.

Otherwise, the other three cases (Ramona's recently demised, Gretchen's original still running but poorly engine, and the mystery case I finally noticed in Betty after we had towed her up to the mountain.) look to be viable for a second align bore, taking them to the oversize that the last case measures to.

The "engine kit (everything but heads and a set of piston/cylinders)" I picked up from Bookwus case measures straight from the machine shop align bored second oversize 66.00. The widest variation by my measurements was .12 mm.

Economics quickly squashed dreams of investing in machine shop work on every case, and every head. Sigh.

And I've picked a machine shop. Brett Mattney Racing renting space from Avery's in Woodland. I think they are the folks machining after market cases that are to die for. I long to beta test one for them. They also do transmissions. And I suspect they may also have the skills to balance my new drive train to itself as a unit. The Sermon from Bob Hoover I have always taken to heart.

And reflecting on the crankshaft with the machine shop tag still on it in the "engine kit" with a bit of waffling aberration on crankshaft at the small bearing number four pulley end, I realized the bearing would never be riding on that surface, and where it would be was pretty dandy.

Taking in single port heads to be reworked. Gretchen's heads. And transmissions. $325 plus parts. Ramona's that pops out of fourth, and Gretchen's that disintegrated into no gears.

But I digress.

I called about and got some prices on cylinder/piston sets, lifters and rods. No one seems to be re-bushing rods. I have so many sets. Really annoying. The cylinder/piston query was the most telling (Hey, only fifteen dollars more, some 87s).


neal

[ruckman101]

Looks like I'm gonna spec the crankshafts on hand a bit closer to detail tomorrow.

Thinking doghouse cooled single port, stock forged Mahle's for p/c, and the same 30/31 carb, stock exhaust.

Anyone have thoughts about plusses or minuses of the thicker or slimmer head bolts? Committed the to thicker, but seem to recall hearing some praises of the thinner.



neal

[Amskeptic]

Looks like I'm gonna spec the crankshafts on hand a bit closer to detail tomorrow.

Thinking doghouse cooled single port, stock forged Mahle's for p/c, and the same 30/31 carb, stock exhaust.

Anyone have thoughts about plusses or minuses of the thicker or slimmer head bolts? Committed the to thicker, but seem to recall hearing some praises of the thinner.

neal

I praise the thinner. They are the reeds of grass in the wind, versus the mighty oaks that topple.
I can talk to you like that, you are a poet.
8mm bolts know how to stretch and return. 10mm bolts just rip the threads out of the case.
Colin

[hambone]

Any machine shop can press new bushings into rods, I don't understand. It is common practice at rebuild time.

[ruckman101]

Not so many anymore apparently. Ashley is working with an outfit in Seattle. Avery's just sells new and knew of no one specific locally. They mumbled something about California. Halsey, Discount didn't mention reconditioned.

That's what it was about the thinner, there was something gnawing in my noggin about it. Can I convert?

The case has indeed been align bored .040 over, second bore, with a thrust cut of 1 mm. The crankshaft apparently got measured but never reground. Took them over to Avery's and Todd went over them for me. Crankshaft is at .010, and was slated to be reground .020. Ordered Mahle stock forge p/cs and Febi lifters. Saving the what look to be reground ones for a Betty Baja engine. The mating surfaces for the cylinders had also been honed down a bit, .015.

Also took the heads to Matney Racing machine shop, who rents a corner of Avery's warehouse and dropped off the single port heads that were on Gretchen's original engine. Well, original to me, came with her when we bought her. Also dropped off the transmission out of Ramona that had been put to service in Bertha that has been popping out of fourth with alarming, seemingly escalating frequency. They don't re-bush rods or grind cranks or spin balance. They used to get all their spin balancing done by, wait for it ... Dan Hall.

I did get a couple of names of places. Gilbertsons in SE, Bearing Services in NW, and a mystery one somewhere in Hazeldell.

What I hate most about going to Avery's is seeing that lousy new TF-1 engine case they have on display. Once I lay eyes on it I can't tear them away and my mind hopelessly mulls over any, any, any way I would be able to get one. Sigh. Met Todd who designed them, and we took a look at the monster industrial machine that tools them.

http://www.averysaircooled.com/partsgui ... igbore.cfm

They are much prettier in person than in the photos. Never align bore again with a stock application. Maybe with the 100mm pistons folks are putting on them.



neal

[hambone]

100k miles between align bores etc, so you get at least 300k from a stock magnesium case. All that extra beef is nice but not really necessary for a stock VW. IMHO but I'm a cheapskate.

[ruckman101]

The price difference has been narrowing.


neal

[Amskeptic]

The price difference has been narrowing.


neal

I am curious. Was thinking of getting an aluminum T1 case for Chloe for durability at my highway rpms . . .
Colin

[ruckman101]

$1,450.00, same price as they were when you gave them a peak and new AS-41 cases were $650.00, now up to about $1,000.00.

I'd pick one up in a heartbeat if I had that kind of cabbage.


neal

[ruckman101]

And another opinion from Todd, crafting those fine cases. Flat lifters fail because there is no longer zinc in automobile oils, that used to act as a lubricant. He recommended Brad Penn oil, or a Chevrolet additive, 2ddp. I haven't researched it yet, but thought I would throw it out there before I forgot.

neal

[Xelmon]

And another opinion from Todd, crafting those fine cases. Flat lifters fail because there is no longer zinc in automobile oils, that used to act as a lubricant.

That's something Tris quickly brought to my attention when I began dabbling with the GMC, and since then I know full and well to either run zinc-ed oils, or have zinc additive at hand.

[ruckman101]

Avery's suggested EMPI's lube a lobe lifters. Perhaps an alternative to zinc additives. I didn't go there.


neal

[ruckman101]

So I called a machine shop today. An Avery's suggestion. Sobering. Bearing Service Co. in the Portland's Pearl District. Been there a spell. Still there despite skyrocketing property values.

http://bearingservicecoportlandor.com

Recondition connecting rods with new bushings? Can do. Magnaflux and regrind a crankshaft? Can do. Spin balance the drive-train assembly as a unit aka Sermons of Bob Hoover? Can do. Spec case and all components to bearings? Can do. Dandy. Bill? Roughly $500.00. And I suspect that could be a conservative estimate on my part.

The phrase "engine customization" is a red flag for me to call some other shops. Those prices put me in a quandary, along with some nuance in tone from the fellow from Bearing Service that I spoke with when I mentioned the line bore of my case. Now I question the wisdom of that kind of investment in used parts. Annoying. And then compare the price points. New rods and crankshaft only another $50 investment.

I have another name from Avery's, so will give Gilbertson in SE Portland a call Friday when I'm back in town from a day of pro bono video documentary shooting that's on my table tomorrow.


neal