Valve cover woes

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the miz
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Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:44 am

Now, I know there’s another thread on here about valve cover gaskets, etc., but I wanted to start a new one to address my sudden problems. I have suddenly bad oil leaks from my valve covers. I put at least 5000 mi on my Westy last summer without valve cover oil leaks being a serious concern, what last season’s issue was, was this: at the end of each long trip we’d have trouble keeping the engine running, as the passenger valve cover gasket would pull away from the cover...allowing a vacuum leak. At the time I was following the protocol I’ve always used: Elring gaskets affixed to the cover with Indianhead shellac, greased or oiled before use. I figured the problem was either due to the cork gaskets or the shellac not being robust enough material...although it had always worked before.
To try to solve this problem, I’ve tried: silicone gaskets affixed to the covers with Permatex Super Blue...leaked oil. Elring gaskets affixed with Super Blue...leaked oil. A new set of valve covers with Elring gaskets affixed with Super Blue...now both sides leak oil.
I guess I’m ready to go back to shellac? Or maybe try some bolt on valve covers?
I know that Colin has told me before that part of the problem is that the interface surface on newer Spanish AMC heads is much smoother than the original VW heads and this can exacerbate the issue.
I am frustrated, because the oil leak was not really an issue last year...and because I have the first camping trip of the season next weekend...which won’t happen with an oil leak of this magnitude.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Miz
1982 Westy- Vana White

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wcfvw69
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:43 am

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Valve-Cov ... 01-481.htm
http://www.busdepot.com/021101481
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/SILICONE- ... -914-s.htm
https://realgaskets.com/

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=567959

Some good tips in this thread from TS.

I know on type 1 valve covers, the bales need to be re bent after a few decades. The covers can also get tweaked and not sit flat/flush on the heads. I'd rule those things out then buy the best gasket you can find above.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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SlowLane
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by SlowLane » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:58 am

I've been using Hylomar to affix the gaskets to valve covers for some time now without issue. Have also been re-using the same gaskets for 12 years.

But given that yours is a sudden new problem, I'd suggest looking for the source. When you say "pull away", which direction are they being pulled? To the inside of the rocker arm space? If so, maybe you have a crankcase venting issue that is causing too much vacuum to build up in the crankcase.

Or maybe you're not getting the good "thick" gaskets? I seem to recall a thread calling out the differences between the good ol' gaskets and the crap you get nowadays.. oh, I see BIll responded with something actually useful instead of my meandering suppositions.

Don't be swayed by the bolt-on covers. They are a bad design which places undue stress on the tiny outer rocker studs, I just threw out a pair that I purchased long ago. They only went on my engine for a test fit before I yanked them off again.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

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the miz
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:21 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:43 am
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Valve-Cov ... 01-481.htm
http://www.busdepot.com/021101481
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/SILICONE- ... -914-s.htm
https://realgaskets.com/

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=567959

Some good tips in this thread from TS.

I know on type 1 valve covers, the bales need to be re bent after a few decades. The covers can also get tweaked and not sit flat/flush on the heads. I'd rule those things out then buy the best gasket you can find above.
Thanks for the thoughts...the bale/spring on the really leaky side is definitely looser (easier to open/close) than on the other side...any tips on how to reset it? Remove and bend in the ends a bit?
Those are the gaskets I have tried(from aircooled.net), I’ve been using the cork ones and tried the silicone with no success...also ordered some more from bus depot: same Elring part number...in individual packaging.
...again, thanks for the assistance!
Miz
1982 Westy- Vana White

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the miz
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:32 am

SlowLane wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:58 am
I've been using Hylomar to affix the gaskets to valve covers for some time now without issue. Have also been re-using the same gaskets for 12 years.

But given that yours is a sudden new problem, I'd suggest looking for the source. When you say "pull away", which direction are they being pulled? To the inside of the rocker arm space? If so, maybe you have a crankcase venting issue that is causing too much vacuum to build up in the crankcase.

Don't be swayed by the bolt-on covers. They are a bad design which places undue stress on the tiny outer rocker studs, I just threw out a pair that I purchased long ago. They only went on my engine for a test fit before I yanked them off again.
Thanks for the Hylomar tip, I’ll keep that in mind.
This is a problem with the HFM rebuilt engine...never had this issue on the old one. On the old engine, I’d replace the gaskets every year, just because. I think this HFM engine is definitely creating more vacuum than the old one did. Apart from the leaks (vacuum and oil) on the passenger side covers...it seems to be running pretty solidly, though... I just can’t lose a quart of oil on the road every 12 miles.
Also, thanks for confirming my suspicions on the bolt on covers...they didn’t seem like the best idea...but I’m grasping at straws right now...

Miz
1982 Westy- Vana White

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SlowLane
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by SlowLane » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:55 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:43 am
https://realgaskets.com/
Those Real Gaskets look like they would be the bomb, but they only seem to have them for the Type 1 engine.
Wonder if they could be persuaded to produce them for the Type 4 engine as well?
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

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zabo
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by zabo » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:33 pm

SlowLane wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:55 am
Those Real Gaskets look like they would be the bomb, but they only seem to have them for the Type 1 engine.
Wonder if they could be persuaded to produce them for the Type 4 engine as well?
https://realgaskets.com/product/valve-cover-gaskets-47/
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by SlowLane » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:39 pm

zabo wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:33 pm
SlowLane wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:55 am
Those Real Gaskets look like they would be the bomb, but they only seem to have them for the Type 1 engine.
Wonder if they could be persuaded to produce them for the Type 4 engine as well?
https://realgaskets.com/product/valve-cover-gaskets-47/
D'oh! Yeah, I forgot, our vans have Porsh engines. Thanks. :geek:
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:02 pm

I'm going to suggest a radical idea... try a (good) cork gasket dry. I had always coated mine with some wheel bearing grease, and had the same problem you had...they would always get sucked in. okay, Colin, stick your fingers in your ears for this one... I even tried some silicone sealer once, but that didn't help either.

I went to neked cork a few years ago, and never looked back :flower:
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FI ...not leaky, and not so noisy...and she runs awesome!
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the miz
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:25 am

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:02 pm
I'm going to suggest a radical idea... try a (good) cork gasket dry. I had always coated mine with some wheel bearing grease, and had the same problem you had...they would always get sucked in. okay, Colin, stick your fingers in your ears for this one... I even tried some silicone sealer once, but that didn't help either.

I went to neked cork a few years ago, and never looked back :flower:
Thanks for the thought, I’ll probably try it out, since I’m pretty much willing to try anything at this point...I’ve been using a coat of grease or oil...but maybe dry will do it?!
Miz
1982 Westy- Vana White

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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by SlowLane » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:38 am

Have you checked your PCV system to make sure it isn't clotted up with foamy milky oily goo?
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

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the miz
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:25 am

SlowLane wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:38 am
Have you checked your PCV system to make sure it isn't clotted up with foamy milky oily goo?
I will check the case breather in this evening’s attempts...thanks for the suggestion!
Miz
1982 Westy- Vana White

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Amskeptic
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:10 am

the miz wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:25 am
SlowLane wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:38 am
Have you checked your PCV system to make sure it isn't clotted up with foamy milky oily goo?
I will check the case breather in this evening’s attempts...thanks for the suggestion!
Miz

I wanted a whole Minnesota Contingent this year . . . with skyscraper views from atop the elevator (beer) . . . a Belle Plaine day, a (beer) velocity retarder Miz redux, a Brooklyn MN visit with Busberd, and what do I get? Not even a tee shirt.
Hope all is well for all of you,
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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the miz
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:03 pm

Ok, this evening’s update:
The case breather is free of goo and otherwise clear.

A borrowed bale spring from BellePlaine made a big difference on the passenger side cover...now we’re just down to a slow seep, instead of a teaspoon+/Minute. We still have a slow deep on both sides, it might be a livable situation, but as it drips right onto the exhaust headers...it’s a bit smoky.
I am going to affix a fresh set of gaskets into the original covers with Indianhead shellac tonight, so that they can be trialed tomorrow evening. I plan to try them nekkid, per Troll’s suggestion.

Colin: I know at least BellePlaine and I would have loved a visit this year, it’s too bad it didn’t work out to stop over between UT and WI...if that changes let us know!

...thanks again for all of the suggestions...stay tuned!
Miz
1982 Westy- Vana White

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the miz
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Re: Valve cover woes

Post by the miz » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:09 am

Dry gaskets in the original valve covers made further improvement...still not 100% drip free, but probably good enough to not spoil a road trip. I’ll be bringing a back up set of pre-gasketed valve covers...
1982 Westy- Vana White

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