Sway bar

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mattg
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Sway bar

Post by mattg » Tue May 19, 2009 4:49 pm

OK - I am lazy - tell me where you got your sway bars for the front and any positives or negatives. Thanks for your help. I have a 77 Westy.
I'm all out of ideas and I've tried nothing.

77 Westy 2.0 FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Sway bar

Post by Amskeptic » Tue May 19, 2009 6:46 pm

mattg wrote:OK - I am lazy - tell me where you got your sway bars for the front and any positives or negatives. Thanks for your help. I have a 77 Westy.
Mine came from the factory. I like it.
What you think a sway bar does?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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LiveonJG
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Post by LiveonJG » Tue May 19, 2009 7:29 pm

Mine was on my bus when I got it.

It seems fine.

-John
Keep it acoustic.

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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Tue May 19, 2009 11:08 pm

I got mine crawling under one of Bill Trafton's Bus-o'-parts rigs in his overgrown back lot. I think this partricular rig had been there for at least 5 years...

Never seen one broke before but mine was.

Now it sways nicely...
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Sat May 23, 2009 8:20 am

"Sway" bars are designed to reduce traction on the axle they are installed on. They do this by using the compression of the outside wheel to pick up the inside wheel. VWs clearly want the front to break away before the rear sends you ass before tea kettle.

They increase roll stiffness which increases weight transfer to the outside wheel.

I recommend that people do not put a roll bar on the rear axle of a VW bus.

It will make the car subjectively feel more "planted", yes, but they actually only do their job at actual breakaway.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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RSorak 71Westy
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Post by RSorak 71Westy » Sat May 23, 2009 12:43 pm

Sway bars should be called anti-sway bars as this a much closer description to what they do. They resist the leaning motion and use that energy too lower that whole end of the vehicle.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

mattg
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Post by mattg » Tue May 26, 2009 11:41 am

so - do sway bars do anything to help stabilize the ride in windy conditions? I do have the factory sway bar on the front.
I'm all out of ideas and I've tried nothing.

77 Westy 2.0 FI

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RSorak 71Westy
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Post by RSorak 71Westy » Tue May 26, 2009 5:41 pm

Yes they help keep your bus from leaning in a 90 degree wind same as they do when you go through a corner. For a pure headwind or tailwind they do nothing.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 27, 2009 6:43 am

mattg wrote:so - do sway bars do anything to help stabilize the ride in windy conditions? I do have the factory sway bar on the front.
Ah no, not designed to do so. And this is in contradiction to other information you are reading here. If you were to park a VW bus at an angle and detach one side of the bar and put a massive pipe cheater on the end and try to make the bus "level" itself with the sway bar, you would merely twist it to junk. It is a little thing that is only designed to pick up a steering knuckle, brake caliper, and a wheel to unload the inside wheel from the pavement on curves where the front must breakaway before the rear. Subjectively , big sway bars make the car feel more planted, but they have no effect on the actual physics of windy day driving.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

mattg
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Post by mattg » Wed May 27, 2009 7:00 am

Thanks for the input.
I'm all out of ideas and I've tried nothing.

77 Westy 2.0 FI

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Wed May 27, 2009 4:53 pm

Amskeptic wrote:If you were to park a VW bus at an angle and detach one side of the bar and put a massive pipe cheater on the end and try to make the bus "level" itself with the sway bar, you would merely twist it to junk. It is a little thing that is only designed to pick up a steering knuckle, brake caliper, and a wheel to unload the inside wheel from the pavement on curves where the front must breakaway before the rear.
Interesting... I thought the purpose was to reduce body roll in corners by lowering the natural position of the inside wheel during cornering, and increasing the spring rate on the loaded wheel. (They are also known as anti-roll bars, are they not?) They actually increase understeer? Why do fwd cars have such big fat ones in front? That seems counterintuitive for a setup that wants to plow to start with.
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 27, 2009 7:00 pm

vwlover77 wrote: They actually increase understeer? Why do fwd cars have such big fat ones in front? That seems counterintuitive for a setup that wants to plow to start with.
They increase the load on the outside wheel which makes it slip sooner.

Because they are designed to "finish" or "detail" or "trim" the handling dynamics, they sometimes are serving to answer more than one issue. FWD with a huge roll bar may be attempting to control camber changes as well as reduce torque steer. Soggy springs for soft rides also try to save the day with big roll bars to allow serious cornering loads without bottoming the suspension. There are good books on handling dynamics out there.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Manfred
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Post by Manfred » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:57 am

I just installed a heavy duty sway bar. I kind of had to. A heavy duty front and rear sway bar came with my parts van.


So I read Atwell's write up http://www.ratwell.com/technical/SwayBars.html#front and installed the front sway bar only.

I also took his advice and used T-bolt clamps instead of the stock clamps.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/82009/10002/-1

I ordered them from Jegs. 35 bucks for a set of four of 2.5 inch clamps. You want to use two on each side.

I have to say these clamps worked great. Very easy to put on and take off. The sway bar install was very easy also. I cut off the old clamps using a dremel tool. I did have a hard time with one of the bolts that bolt the sway bar to the steering knuckle. If that bolt would have come out easily, the entire job would have taken me 30 minutes at most.

I had a family BBQ to attend on Sunday, so I had a chance to see how she handled on the highway. Round rip was 60 miles. The drive had tons of tight on and off raps. She handled great. I moved with traffic pretty easy. I didn't have to brake hard going into corners because I felt like the bus was going to roll over on me.

I'll checked the clamps when I got to the BBQ and when I got home, they were still tight. If I find any issues with the clamps, I let everyone know.

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