Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by fredg » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:45 am

Latest post of the previous page:

You must adjust the box only outside of the relax dent spot.

That was the piece of info I was missing. If I had read it before, I didn't understand it.

Here are some pics of the box, and other parts I re-built ready for bolt up.

Re-bushing the shift rod was humbling. I'll post pictures in a new post.

FG
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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Malcolm2 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:03 am

I just removed my 72 steering box and found this thread. Can't wait to dive in. This bus has been dead for over 15 years. I hope the box just needs refreshing.

I have not read thru the whole thread, but probably will. I never saw where a rebuild kit was purchased. I see some seals and gaskets, etc.... but what else is there. I don't see a "kit" online anywhere. JustKampers.com seems to have lots of items that could become a kit. but no kit. Plus they are across the pond, increasing my shipping costs.

I did find the seals listed. Is the size all we need in order to purchase these? I am googling the place in Spartanburg now.

Thanks in advance for replying to an old thread.... if you do reply :)

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 09, 2018 2:18 pm

Malcolm2 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:03 am
I just removed my 72 steering box and found this thread. Can't wait to dive in. This bus has been dead for over 15 years. I hope the box just needs refreshing.

I have not read thru the whole thread, but probably will. I never saw where a rebuild kit was purchased. I see some seals and gaskets, etc.... but what else is there. I don't see a "kit" online anywhere. JustKampers.com seems to have lots of items that could become a kit. but no kit. Plus they are across the pond, increasing my shipping costs.

I did find the seals listed. Is the size all we need in order to purchase these? I am googling the place in Spartanburg now.

Thanks in advance for replying to an old thread.... if you do reply :)

. . . " if you do reply " he sez, " if you do reply " My replies range from three minutes to three years. :geek:

Seals are important, the rest you can do on a prayer. I saw at some british site, that they sell the peg, just the peg. Either it is a hitherto unknown "wear part", or they are trying to move the rest of the dusty old boxes they scarfed from some closed dealership in 1972, I dunno. Maybe I should buy one and stick in a someone's misbehaving steering box.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri May 11, 2018 5:05 pm

Many people pull the seals and get them matched up at the local bearing/seal shop. If you go to The Samba, there's threads on there with the seal part numbers.

BTW, I read somewhere that those Peg's sold over the pond don't fit. I'm sure there's an old thread on The Samba about it.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Amskeptic » Sat May 12, 2018 8:35 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:05 pm
Many people pull the seals and get them matched up at the local bearing/seal shop. If you go to The Samba, there's threads on there with the seal part numbers.

BTW, I read somewhere that those Peg's sold over the pond don't fit. I'm sure there's an old thread on The Samba about it.
Thanks for the head's up. There is a lot that doesn't fit in today's world. For example, why would AT&T, some Swedish pharmaceutical company, and a couple of others PAY a two-bit Michael moron Cohen greaseball scumbag lawyer millions! of dollars to "advise" them on things HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT but that they thought they could buy influence, and he thought he could sell influence? See, it just doesn't fit.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by wcfvw69 » Sat May 12, 2018 8:55 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:35 am
For example, why would AT&T, some Swedish pharmaceutical company, and a couple of others PAY a two-bit Michael moron Cohen greaseball scumbag lawyer millions! of dollars to "advise" them on things HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT but that they thought they could buy influence, and he thought he could sell influence? See, it just doesn't fit.
Colin
Interestingly enough, I don't think what Trumps lawyer did was out of the "norm" for people close to whoever the president is. Yes, Trump's presidency has brought an intensive spotlight on these types of transgressions due the hatred of the man. Trumps continual condemnation of the press is only fueling their desire to uncover anything that could get him impeached and removed from office.

But, at the end of the day, our political system is broken and has been broken. When Billionaires and huge corporations with their special interests are paying for "their" politicians to get elected, we will continue to wash, rinse and repeat with each new election cycle whether its for congress, the senate or the Whitehouse.

Again, the American political system is broken. I accept that and chose to not let it add to my daily stress or irritation.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Amskeptic » Sun May 13, 2018 7:00 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:55 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:35 am
For example, why would AT&T, some Swedish pharmaceutical company, and a couple of others PAY a two-bit Michael moron Cohen greaseball scumbag lawyer millions! of dollars to "advise" them on things HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT but that they thought they could buy influence, and he thought he could sell influence? See, it just doesn't fit.
Colin
Interestingly enough, I don't think what Trumps lawyer did was out of the "norm" for people close to whoever the president is. Yes, Trump's presidency has brought an intensive spotlight on these types of transgressions due the hatred of the man. Trumps continual condemnation of the press is only fueling their desire to uncover anything that could get him impeached and removed from office.

But, at the end of the day, our political system is broken and has been broken. When Billionaires and huge corporations with their special interests are paying for "their" politicians to get elected, we will continue to wash, rinse and repeat with each new election cycle whether its for congress, the senate or the Whitehouse.

Again, the American political system is broken. I accept that and chose to not let it add to my daily stress or irritation.


We ARE going to move this little bit to the Free Speech forum. I will state here, however, that this is entirely out of the norm, and we cannot allow our standards to erode. You and I both know the great range of different people on this Earth. I went to prep school in Massachusetts, and I had a front row seat to the George Bush, Mitt Romney, Donald Trump kids. And I lived in a dormitory with the token "diversity kids". Our last President was a good decent intelligent and empathetic man who rose through the ranks based on merit. This current guy is one of those privileged kids who used to make my life hell because they were bullies. Front row seat to this, Bill. I feel it viscerally. Now look at the people who surrounded Obama during his scandal/grifter-free administration. Listen to interviews with any of them today. They were good decent intelligent and empathetic people. Joe Biden comes to mind. IF WE CANNOT DISTINGUISH between the good and the bad, we are lost. I will continue to sharply define the difference between good and bad until my dying breath. It is important. There is no diplomatic softening of these divides. Michael Cohen was that disgusting toady little scumbag who used hang out with the big bully jock and jump in on the ridicule only after the jock pasted some poor different soul. I have seen it, I had a front row seat, they repulse me to my core.

The American political system is NOT BROKEN. It is a beautiful and amazing system, and it deserves the respect it actually deserves by at least understanding it. Most, most . . . . most Americans these days do NOT understand the system. It is pathetic. Our beautiful system of government is overrun by self-serving greedy bullies, and it is damn good and past time to throw them the hell out. I pray for intelligent and committed public servants. I am so disgusted by this administration, it truly causes despair.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:44 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:00 am
wcfvw69 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:55 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:35 am
For example, why would AT&T, some Swedish pharmaceutical company, and a couple of others PAY a two-bit Michael moron Cohen greaseball scumbag lawyer millions! of dollars to "advise" them on things HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT but that they thought they could buy influence, and he thought he could sell influence? See, it just doesn't fit.
Colin
Interestingly enough, I don't think what Trumps lawyer did was out of the "norm" for people close to whoever the president is. Yes, Trump's presidency has brought an intensive spotlight on these types of transgressions due the hatred of the man. Trumps continual condemnation of the press is only fueling their desire to uncover anything that could get him impeached and removed from office.

But, at the end of the day, our political system is broken and has been broken. When Billionaires and huge corporations with their special interests are paying for "their" politicians to get elected, we will continue to wash, rinse and repeat with each new election cycle whether its for congress, the senate or the Whitehouse.

Again, the American political system is broken. I accept that and chose to not let it add to my daily stress or irritation.


We ARE going to move this little bit to the Free Speech forum. I will state here, however, that this is entirely out of the norm, and we cannot allow our standards to erode. You and I both know the great range of different people on this Earth. I went to prep school in Massachusetts, and I had a front row seat to the George Bush, Mitt Romney, Donald Trump kids. And I lived in a dormitory with the token "diversity kids". Our last President was a good decent intelligent and empathetic man who rose through the ranks based on merit. This current guy is one of those privileged kids who used to make my life hell because they were bullies. Front row seat to this, Bill. I feel it viscerally. Now look at the people who surrounded Obama during his scandal/grifter-free administration. Listen to interviews with any of them today. They were good decent intelligent and empathetic people. Joe Biden comes to mind. IF WE CANNOT DISTINGUISH between the good and the bad, we are lost. I will continue to sharply define the difference between good and bad until my dying breath. It is important. There is no diplomatic softening of these divides. Michael Cohen was that disgusting toady little scumbag who used hang out with the big bully jock and jump in on the ridicule only after the jock pasted some poor different soul. I have seen it, I had a front row seat, they repulse me to my core.
My best friend went to USC in the late 80's. I frequently drove up to there to party with him on the weekends. His USC friends and roommates were all from very rich families which he was not. I will honestly say that it was challenging to spend any time around those guys. I agree with your assessment that those types of kids are simply douche bags. Spoiled rotten. Arrogant for no reason. Just miserable guys to be around. So, I get where you're coming from with your description above.

In regards to our last president, I will agree that he was heads and tails above our current president in class, character and intelligence. With that said, I won't poke the bear (you) and share my strong opposition to many of his policies and shortcomings in the role.
Amskeptic wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:00 am
The American political system is NOT BROKEN. It is a beautiful and amazing system, and it deserves the respect it actually deserves by at least understanding it. Most, most . . . . most Americans these days do NOT understand the system. It is pathetic. Our beautiful system of government is overrun by self-serving greedy bullies, and it is damn good and past time to throw them the hell out. I pray for intelligent and committed public servants. I am so disgusted by this administration, it truly causes despair.
Colin
It's broken in the context of what you describe above. How do we ordinary American citizens break the cycle of wash, rinse and repeat every 4 years? Everybody I know and talk politics with say the same thing. "It's broken", whether they are conservatives, democrats, etc. To your point, yes, most Americans don't get it and gladly go and vote for "their" politician they see on the TV ads every 5 seconds, again and again for the senate or house. This is why we have career politicians which should not happen. We need term limits across the board. We need to limit and put better controls on the rich lobbies. We need to rain in campaign contributions. We need to get Americans to weld a "D" ring to their head and pull it out of their ass so they stop voting for the same idiots again and again.

The system is rigged currently and is not what our founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution. We "almost" gained some traction when Bernie caught fire and we voted against the grain. However, crooked Hilary outmaneuvered him and then got her ass handed to her by one of the biggest turds to walk the face of the earth. The fact that the orange one got elected should of sent a strong message to the career idiots in Washington that Americans are tired of their self serving, get nothing done bullshit. Sadly, it didn't and we have a chance this November to actually make an impact with our votes to get rid of someone of them...
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Malcolm2 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:06 am

sorry I woke up this almost 3 year dormant post.... ;) it turned political fast.

Buy hey, I got my gear box apart, with the exception of the peg and all the little bearings.... So you just remove the nut and all the washers, then kinda twist and turn the peg out?

BTW thanks for replying.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Amskeptic » Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 pm

Malcolm2 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:06 am
sorry I woke up this almost 3 year dormant post.... ;) it turned political fast.

Buy hey, I got my gear box apart, with the exception of the peg and all the little bearings.... So you just remove the nut and all the washers, then kinda twist and turn the peg out?

BTW thanks for replying.

That was me. I am a citizen first, hobbyist second. There is no apology necessary around these parts.

Now then, in the write-up:
f) Tap the lock tab off the edge of the nut and remove the nut, the lock washer, the keyed washer, the thrust washer, the roller end track washer, and lay them out on your nice clean work counter. Rotate the peg and all these little tapered needle bearings are coming out all over the place. There are sixteen tapered rollers per side:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Malcolm2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:42 pm

Dude, I am so thankful that you started this post. I have my gear box apart, and painted. I started putting it back together.... after about 2 months of it all being in bags and buying parts that only seem to be available in the UK. It was missing 3 balls. I did not notice that upon disassembly. Took me a day to figure out how to get the balls in and the clip on at the same time. :bootyshake:

Anyway, I will have 50 1/4" G25 balls by Sunday for $5. Baby steps. Thanks. =D> =D>

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:14 pm

Malcolm2 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:42 pm
Dude, I am so thankful that you started this post. I have my gear box apart, and painted. I started putting it back together.... after about 2 months of it all being in bags and buying parts that only seem to be available in the UK. It was missing 3 balls. I did not notice that upon disassembly. Took me a day to figure out how to get the balls in and the clip on at the same time. :bootyshake:

Anyway, I will have 50 1/4" G25 balls by Sunday for $5. Baby steps. Thanks. =D> =D>

I look forward to your triumphant test drive. I also look forward to Ronin10's late Bay steering box resuscitation. Man, that is a weird box.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Malcolm2 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:43 pm

With the exception of oil and proper shimming, I think I have it. Like everything on my 45 year old VWs I had to assemble it at least 2 maybe 3 times. When trying to bend the star washer, it seems that the downward force opposite the upward bending force JAMMED the tapered bearings. Nothing would turn, so, I took it all apart again.

Fully assembled but the cap and shims are waiting the the sealant to cure to give me the right ho-made space without an extra spacer.

I too look forward to a test drive..... but that is probably a year away, if not longer. Baby steps on this bus, that has been sitting since the late 80's. I am thinking I will get it mechanically set and drive the damn thing with no windows, only 1 seat, crappy paint and rusty panels. But I want to drive it.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by asiab3 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:53 pm

I just ran this procedure yesterday, probably my fourth or fifth time. It was the first time I had experienced the tab bending locking up the tapered rollers as you described. I disassembled the washer stack up to ensure proper orientation, and assembled taking care not to torque the washer stack during bending. I don’t know what changed, but I assume the preload on the needle rollers was not adequate, allowing them to bind.

Just like greasing the needle rollers to capture them to the peg, the ball races should be greased to capture the ball bearings as you slide the collar and clip down the shaft.

I acquired 1500w (yes, you read that correctly) gear oil, and this spare box of mine is absolutely gorgeous in workbench tactile feel. It will be in my car by next week, and I’ll let y’all know how it does over the next few months because...

Wolfgang International in Redding, CA has a machinist who bores out the boxes (as long as the part number ends in F. No E boxes allowed...) and installs silica-bronze bushings for the output shaft, so maybe I’ll once again take a dirt road without clunking. It’s not cheap, but the bushings could be replaced over the life of the car, and this could extend our early bay originality well into the next century with careful maintenance and driving.

Robbie
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100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by Jivermo » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:44 pm

Man, those worms are works of art. Great write up.

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Re: Early Bay Box Dis/ReAssembly

Post by wcfvw69 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:01 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:53 pm
I just ran this procedure yesterday, probably my fourth or fifth time. It was the first time I had experienced the tab bending locking up the tapered rollers as you described. I disassembled the washer stack up to ensure proper orientation, and assembled taking care not to torque the washer stack during bending. I don’t know what changed, but I assume the preload on the needle rollers was not adequate, allowing them to bind.

Just like greasing the needle rollers to capture them to the peg, the ball races should be greased to capture the ball bearings as you slide the collar and clip down the shaft.

I acquired 1500w (yes, you read that correctly) gear oil, and this spare box of mine is absolutely gorgeous in workbench tactile feel. It will be in my car by next week, and I’ll let y’all know how it does over the next few months because...

Wolfgang International in Redding, CA has a machinist who bores out the boxes (as long as the part number ends in F. No E boxes allowed...) and installs silica-bronze bushings for the output shaft, so maybe I’ll once again take a dirt road without clunking. It’s not cheap, but the bushings could be replaced over the life of the car, and this could extend our early bay originality well into the next century with careful maintenance and driving.

Robbie
Robbie,

Did you have Wolfgang install the bushing in your box? If so, what was the cost if you just shipped the housing?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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