Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

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hambone
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Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:08 pm

Well sort of.
The 1966-1969 Beetle Bentley manual doesn't account for dual-circuit brakes, and a revised pedal cluster (1-8-67 dual circuit brakes were introduced).
The Bentley instructions are incorrect for removing a dual circuit master cylinder. Bentley tells you to remove a pin on the pedal, and then remove the clevis and rod from the master cylinder. They are very clear on this, with photos of everything. Muir says the same thing, in the Idiot Book. The only thing is, they are wrong, and this makes a simple task vastly more complicated. The only way to remove the clevis is to remove the spring under the pedals, with an end wrapped around a pin on the brake pedal - and then somehow reattach under tension. It is very difficult to do, and doesn't serve any point.

The 1970-on Beetle Bentley has corrected this procedure, making the job quick and simple. Leave the pedal and clevis alone. Disconnect and pull out the master cylinder.

A few years ago, I followed the incorrect procedure, and it was hell. Recently I followed the updated procedure, and it was infinitely easier.

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:05 pm

Thanks Bob that's good to know. I've completely forgotten about this.
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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:34 am

hambone wrote:Thanks Bob that's good to know. I've completely forgotten about this.
I was going to reply on February 5th, 2017, but you beat me to it. I do not have a Bug Bentley, so I have to ask, is there any mention of single-circuit versus dual circuit master cylinders in the Bentley procedure?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:06 am

After putting on a parka and Maine Fisherman's outfit to go the 10' to my garage:
There is no mention of dual or single in the procedure, but the photos shown are very early, perhaps '50s. There is a well in the floor where the pedals sit! Crazy. The "description" part of BRAKES shows photos and talks about the difference between cylinders.
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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:20 am

hambone wrote:After putting on a parka and Maine Fisherman's outfit to go the 10' to my garage:
There is no mention of dual or single in the procedure, but the photos shown are very early, perhaps '50s. There is a well in the floor where the pedals sit! Crazy. The "description" part of BRAKES shows photos and talks about the difference between cylinders.
After sitting here in my gold embroidered robe, sipping freshly ground coffee (that'll be all, Maria) to Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, and having to reach four inches to the keyboard keys, there is no mention of the brake push rod not being attached to the master cylinder in any way? The diagram picture shows a ball end to #3 push rod.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:50 pm

No mention. I think it's just a nib at the end.
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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:37 pm

An update: today I was working on a 1970 Beetle, had to replace the clutch cable. Worst Job Ever. But guess what, the clevis must come off to remove the pedal cluster. Sort of indirectly related, as I got the 2 confused today and was wondering why the clevis had to come off...
PS the push rod has a rounded fat end, sort of like the male unit. No ball. Wow he says.
Colin how do you enjoy this work? The sweat was running into my upside down eyes today, poor molested Beetle far from stock...
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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:15 am

hambone wrote: Colin how do you enjoy this work?
Who said I enjoy this work?
Colin :blackeye:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by asiab3 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:34 am

The trick with procedures like that is to do them on a hot day, so you can enjoy the sweat as the wind whips through your facial scruff and creates the World's Best Air Conditioning. That, or have a helper to hold tension on the clutch cable during reinstall.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:06 pm

IF you keep the clutch pedal as vertical as possible and don't let it drop you don't need a helper. It is delicate.
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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:05 pm

Screw Bentley. Clutch cable replacement procedure, 1968 and later type1:

1. Jack up driver's side rear and block front wheels. Jack stand.
2. Remove wing nut from clutch cable, swearing the time away
3. Remove clip holding clevis to pedal, remove clevis
4. Unbolt pedal assembly from tunnel, 2 bolts
5. Remove pedals from tunnel, remove accelerator cable from pedal, remove broken clutch cable from front of car
6. Remove bowden tube mounting bracket from transmission (2 nuts), thread greased new cable into tube in tunnel all the way back, then replace bowden tube
7. Hook new cable, greased, onto pedal, also do the same for accel cable
8. Replace clevis and spring onto pedal assembly
9. While keeping clutch pedal vertical, replace pedal assembly onto tunnel and push rod into master cylinder
10. Rear of car: pull clutch cable taught thru clutch arm on transmission, replace wing nut. Adjust clutch play.
11. Lower car, drive off into sunset

This will probably help me when I forget in a couple of years...DAVE WHO??!!?
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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by asiab3 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:41 pm

hambone wrote:IF you keep the clutch pedal as vertical as possible and don't let it drop you don't need a helper. It is delicate.

I suppose the luck of that happening depends on the quality of nearby carpet. My splayed out muff of a rug happened to get in the way of every attempt until I cut it back.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:35 am

Edit in RED

hambone wrote:Screw Bentley. Clutch cable replacement procedure, 1968 and later type1:

1. Jack up driver's side rear and block front wheels. Jack stand.
2. Remove wing nut from clutch cable, swearing the time away
3. Remove clip holding clevis to BRAKE pedal, remove clevis
4. Unbolt pedal assembly from tunnel, 2 bolts
5. Remove pedals from tunnel, remove accelerator cable from pedal, remove broken clutch cable from front of car
6. Remove bowden tube mounting bracket from transmission (2 nuts), thread greased new cable into tube in tunnel all the way back, then replace bowden tube
7. Hook new cable, greased, onto pedal, also do the same for accel cable (strap with rubber band to hold)
8. Replace clevis and spring onto pedal assembly
9. While keeping clutch pedal vertical, replace pedal assembly onto tunnel and push rod into master cylinder
10. Rear of car: pull clutch cable taught thru clutch arm on transmission, replace wing nut. Adjust clutch play.
11. Lower car, drive off into sunset

This will probably help me when I forget in a couple of years...DAVE WHO??!!?
Daewoo? Quite the little Korean car. Why are we talking about Daewoos?
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by asiab3 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:27 am

asiab3 wrote:
hambone wrote:IF you keep the clutch pedal as vertical as possible and don't let it drop you don't need a helper. It is delicate.

I suppose the luck of that happening depends on the quality of nearby carpet. My splayed out muff of a rug happened to get in the way of every attempt until I cut it back.
Luck? LUCK??? Who said anything about luck? All this talk of master cylinders just got very real this weekend...

Image


Bob, thank you for this thread resurgence. It couldn't have come at a better time. Now where is that bug Bentley? I need a doorstop.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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Re: Beetle Master Cylinder - Don't Listen to Bentley!

Post by hambone » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:46 pm

OOP soo sorry for the long-distance electronic jinx..........
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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