Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the booster.

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luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the booster.

Post by luftvagon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:20 am

Fluid is good. Recent flush, and in between Min and Max level.
My brakes are intermittently started working poorly, and there is a little pool on the bottom lip of the booster. I was driving, and as I tried to slow down, the brakes got really soft, "the swoooft" sound came from under the dash, and the brake light came on, flickered and went off.. I immediately released the brake and pressed it again, and it was firm again, but it could still get past the firmness if I press too hard. I've been driving the F250 too much, and it requires serious force to be applied for stoppage. I blame it on myself. What could be wrong?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:10 pm

luftvagon wrote:Fluid is good. Recent flush, and in between Min and Max level.
My brakes are intermittently started working poorly, and there is a little pool on the bottom lip of the booster. I was driving, and as I tried to slow down, the brakes got really soft, "the swoooft" sound came from under the dash, and the brake light came on, flickered and went off.. I immediately released the brake and pressed it again, and it was firm again, but it could still get past the firmness if I press too hard. I've been driving the F250 too much, and it requires serious force to be applied for stoppage. I blame it on myself. What could be wrong?
Master cylinder seal failure. Often happens after a flush.
Colin
(replace with best available)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:38 pm

seal or the master cylinder :)
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:44 pm

luftvagon wrote:seal or the master cylinder :)
All the damn seals INSIDE of the master cylinder. You are shoving a piston down a bore with as much leakage as a french press coffee maker.
Get the best master cylinder! assembly! as you can.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:05 am

Another interesting observation. With engine not running/no vacuum provided to the booster. The master cylinder appears to work fine. How involved is the replacement? The whole dash needs to come down? Any objections to Napa Master Cyl and/or brake booster if needed?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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DjEep
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by DjEep » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:48 am

Do NOT use the napa replacement. Use FAG/FAE or Varga. And use FAE switches.

When you do the replacement, make sure to adjust up those rear brakes really tight, as in it takes a some effort to turn the wheel all the way around, but it doesn't totally bind anywhere. Vanagons like really tight rear brakes, keeps there from being too much travel in the master and wearing out the seals and pistons. You'll notice much better pedal response too.

Double check your clutch master feed line while you are in there, much easy to replace a cracked or wrong-hosed one (blue viton, not some old fuel line hose) now instead of having to spill brake fluid everywhere again sometime soon.
"Live life, love life. Enjoy the pleasures and the sorrows. For it is the bleak valleys, the dark corners that make the peaks all the more magnificent. And once you realize that, you begin to see the beauty hidden within those valleys, and learn to love the climb." - Anonymous

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luftvagon
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Where can one find these replacements?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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hambone
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by hambone » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:51 pm

And:
For type2 - what to use for the hose between reservoirs? Beetle blue line? The original seems fatter at the reservoir nipple, but maybe that's just age.
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luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:42 pm

I found the ATE/FAG Master Cylinder, and will put in an order tonight. Should I worry about the booster also? What else should I replace? The switch?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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DjEep
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by DjEep » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:12 pm

If your switches are good, and/or you can't easily acquire FAE switches, just swap them over with a little teflon on the threads. If the engine isn't stalling when you brake, the booster is probably ok, just try to clean it out if it has any brake fluid in it. If Les Schwab has ever done the brakes, you'll likely have to take the drums off and flip over the upper springs that they love to install upside down, blocking the movement of the adjuster stars... :angryfire:

Hammy, the buses took that special plastic line, which is unobtainium, save for stashed used ones. The lines usually don't go bad, just the little rubber boots that go over the nipples on the reservoirs, and slip inside the "fat" ends of the plastic line, like a little brake fluid condom. Those are still made from obtainium. But if it does crack or what have you, I'd say maybe some of that viton hose they use for bio-diesel retrofits?
"Live life, love life. Enjoy the pleasures and the sorrows. For it is the bleak valleys, the dark corners that make the peaks all the more magnificent. And once you realize that, you begin to see the beauty hidden within those valleys, and learn to love the climb." - Anonymous

Do you want to Survive? Or do you want to LIVE?

luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:50 am

Parts ordered, and will be delivered this week... While there, I opted to go ahead and completely rebuild my brakes, and my clutch master, and slave...

Front Brake Pads
Rear Shoes
Shoe Hardware Kit
Brake Master Cyl
Clutch Master Cyl
Clutch Slave Cyl
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:36 am

luftvagon wrote:I opted to completely rebuild my brakes...

Front Brake Pads
Rear Shoes
Shoe Hardware Kit
Brake Master Cyl
Clutch Master Cyl
Clutch Slave Cyl
Where are the new flexible brake hoses, young Luftwagonner?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
Status: Offline

Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:37 am

Doh! How could I? Which place do you recommend? All 4?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:48 am

luftvagon wrote:Doh! How could I? Which place do you recommend? All 4?
Try to find good German (ATE?) hoses with the understanding that "good German hoses" are merely the least sucky of the currently available hoses.
All four, you ask?
I ain't even answering that, Mr. I Have To Rebuild My Whole Brake System
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

luftvagon
Old School!
Location: Little Rock, AR
Status: Offline

Re: Brake Issues -- Leaking from what appears to be the boos

Post by luftvagon » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:48 am

Better to stop, than be stopped against some object :)
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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