Itinerant Air-Cooled

Took the bus up to Stone Mtn today. was going up highway 78 and arnd 65-70mph the steering got really squirrley. so much so i flipped the hazzards on and brought it back down to 50. I think the speed limit is 75 right there... It seems pretty well behaved at lower speeds.

not sure whts causing it. new hankooks ra08's, new center pin, Colin and i replaced the outer spring plate bushings. Thinking ill go ahead an do the inners to see if tht helps.
looked at the front end while turning wheels an did not see anything tht was obviously wrong.

zabo wrote:Took the bus up to Stone Mtn today. was going up highway 78 and arnd 65-70mph the steering got really squirrley. so much so i flipped the hazzards on and brought it back down to 50. I think the speed limit is 75 right there... It seems pretty well behaved at lower speeds.

not sure whts causing it. new hankooks ra08's, new center pin, Colin and i replaced the outer spring plate bushings. Thinking ill go ahead an do the inners to see if tht helps.
looked at the front end while turning wheels an did not see anything tht was obviously wrong.

Is the steering too tight? Lift the front end off the ground and grab a wheel. Push/pull from lock to lock. It should *glide easily*. If you have to heave it, then the squirrely feeling is known as "lack of self-correction" or "lack of return" or "lack of caster". Got that tee shirt.
Keep the center pin lubricated and it will slowly break in.

Your steering box is not too tight, is it? It should rock slightly back and forth about two or three time when you release the wheel after loading it up slightly at true center position.

Do you see or feel any weird wear on the tires?
Colin

Yes - it is very hard to turn the front wheels with them off the ground- a two handed job.

Your steering box is not too tight, is it? It should rock slightly back and forth about two or three time when you release the wheel after loading it up slightly at true center position.

Im assuming this is with wheels off the ground?
I will try when i get home.

zabo wrote:Yes - it is very hard to turn the front wheels with them off the ground- a two handed job.

There you go. We have a tight steering system not allowing natural caster.

zabo wrote:

Your steering box is not too tight, is it? It should rock slightly back and forth about two or three time when you release the wheel after loading it up slightly at true center position.

Im assuming this is with wheels off the ground?
I will try when i get home.

On the ground. We need the resistance of the car right through the drag link.
Colin

Air pressures front and rear?

Hey Colin the steering wheel does rock a few times.
Is the new centerpin the sole cause or should i be looking at other parts now?

Randy in Maine wrote:Air pressures front and rear?

35/45

zabo wrote:Hey Colin the steering wheel does rock a few times.
Is the new centerpin the sole cause or should i be looking at other parts now?

Randy in Maine wrote:Air pressures front and rear?

35/45

The center pin shouldn't be binding up unless it was never greased when new. Did you recently install the center pin kit? When you install the bushings, you slip the pin inside the bushings and there shouldn't be any tightness to it. The pin should slide in/out and spin with your hand.

Colin did note that he installed a center pin kit in someone else's bus a year or two ago and the bushings required honing which is not the norm. I used a Febi, made in Germany kit. After I installed the pin's bushing, the pin slid in/out nicely w/out slop.

yes this was the febi kit as well. center pin seemed to slide in nicely

zabo wrote:yes this was the febi kit as well. center pin seemed to slide in nicely

If you have to heave the wheels from lock-to-lock, I am guessing that it is the center pin. Diagnostically, we take off the outer tie rod ends to see if the wheels individually are free to rotate about the ball joint axes, then re-install and remove the drag link from the relay lever to see if the tie rods and ball joints are now free. My guess is, you will find that the resistance is in the center pin. Lubricate it again so grease is pushing out of the dust seal above and the dust cap hole below the center pin bushings. Sometimes these things really fight the introduction of grease. Did you fill the cavity between the bushings just before stickin the pin up there? Also, unbelievably when I think of it, the BobD gave me stiff steering after a center pin/bushing replacement in Kentucky 2011. I thought that was weird since the new FEBI bushings were sloppier than the old VW ones I had removed. It turned out to be the grease seal between the center pin bore and the big cap had gotten twisted. That damn thing was acting like a monster steering damper.
Colin

Well the kids baseball games have been keeping me way too busy.

Yesterday i did remove the centerpin to make sure nothing was binding. i did notice my thin metal ring was a bit crushed in the relay hole so i replaced that. With the center pin removed the wheels where still hard to turn by hand.

I also disconnected the steering damper. It was a bit easier to turn the wheels disconnected.
What are the dampers supposed to feel like? mines the same stiff even pressure when pulling out or pushing in.

If time allows i'll disconnect the tie rod ends this weekend.

zabo wrote: With the center pin removed the wheels were still hard to turn by hand.

I also disconnected the steering damper. It was a bit easier to turn the wheels disconnected.
What are the dampers supposed to feel like? mines the same stiff even pressure when pulling out or pushing in.

If time allows i'll disconnect the tie rod ends this weekend.

This is getting interesting. The steering damper appears to be in good condition with even resistance throughout its travel.

It is unusual for ball joints to stiffen up spontaneously.
Colin

Are the ball joints recent additions? What brand are they?

It might help if you describe the symptoms in terms less vague than "squirrelly", so that everybody is on the same page.

the ball joints were on the car when i bought it.
SlowLane- im mot sure how else to describe it. it felt like it was almost out of control. feel free to suggest other adjectives for me to choose from. :)

zabo wrote:the ball joints were on the car when i bought it.
SlowLane- im mot sure how else to describe it. it felt like it was almost out of control. feel free to suggest other adjectives for me to choose from. :)

I think if you take off the tie rod ends with the front end in the air, you'll quickly get an idea of how much force is required to push the wheel full right and then full left w/your hands on the tires. If a lot of effort is required, then you've isolated your issue.

There have been LOTS of reports of REALLY tight new ball joints that cause scary driving experiences. It would require constant correcting of the steering, the wheels not returning to center after a turn, etc..