Left brake and turn signal issue

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CikanVuz
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Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:46 pm

Hi all.

This question is in regard to my 1970 Bay that I bought this past March, which as an electrical issue I can't find.

When I step on the brakes, the front left turn signal lights up solid (flashes when turn signal is on as should) and in the rear,
I am told the parking light filament glows instead of the brake light. (never seen it for myself).

I installed one of those 3rd brake lights from Bus Depot and it works great and as should when I put on the brakes.
Thing is, when I put on my left turn signal, the 3rd brake light flashes. :scratch:

I checked the wiring on the left rear brake light assembly and it "seem" to be correct and if I switch wires, nothing works.

I checked wires on front left turn assembly and they are correct too.

Anyone have any idea just what is crossed and where I look next next? I am having a heck of a time finding aything under that dash
and I have no idea how to even access any relays or switches under there.

Thanks kindly in advance.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:45 pm

CikanVuz wrote:Hi all.

This question is in regard to my 1970 Bay that I bought this past March, which as an electrical issue I can't find.
Do you have a part number or link for the center mount brake light?

The 1971 and earlier buses needed to shut off the brake light at the rear for whichever side was getting a turn signal call. This occurred at the turn signal switch which makes for some exciting wiring in the steering column support area.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:17 pm

Yep, GoWesty.com

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details. ... parent_id=


I put one in my ghia too and I don't have this issue with the ghia. I knew the brake light glowed in the front before I installed the 3rd light as I saw it in the window of a shop as I was parking but I had no idea the rear blinker was flashing incorrectly too until I hooked up the 3rd light as saw its indication flashing in my rear view mirror when I went to turn left.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:29 pm

CikanVuz wrote:Yep, GoWesty.com

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details. ... parent_id=


I put one in my ghia too and I don't have this issue with the ghia. I knew the brake light glowed in the front before I installed the 3rd light as I saw it in the window of a shop as I was parking but I had no idea the rear blinker was flashing incorrectly too until I hooked up the 3rd light as saw its indication flashing in my rear view mirror when I went to turn left.
You cannot use this brake light with shared turn-signal/brake lamps. The Ghias and the Vanagons and later bay buses use separate turn indicators from brake lights.

With an early bus, your center brake light will back-feed up the turn signal wire.
Your best solution will be to separate the center brake light from anything having to do with the tail lamp wiring and use a simple relay to "read" the brake switch output, and send 12 volts to the center brake lamp. A relay would allow you to run 12 volt supply for the center brake lamp right off the downstream side of the reverse lamps fuse, and you could run a relay control wire under the car to the brake light switch.
Colin Yaah?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:27 pm

Ok, thanks! I will give that a shot and post when I get it done if it fixed the issue or not.

Given I put LED lights in my 68 bug for the brake lights instead of stock Image, I didn't think there would be an issue with the bus.

Thanks again and I will give what you suggested a try as soon as I either find a relay in my spare parts, or pick one up. :thumbleft:

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Oh, I do not have stock reverse lights hooked up on the bus. the wires just are no where to be found... I installed some and put them on a direct wire on/off switch. (They are the funny looking little things on the bumper) Image

Can I still feed of the reserve light at the fuse box? (I "Think I can" but given I am no wiring expert and that rats nest hanging by a zip tie gives me shivers as it is, thought I best ask... )

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:04 pm

I did take this pic of it before ( right after I put in 3rd B light), and all looks good to me but my pops says nay ( is one who said what is what in rear)... but as I mentioned, it DID do the stuff with the front turn signal lighting up on braking BEFORE I installed the 3rd B light...

Image

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Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:16 pm

CikanVuz wrote:I did
If your reverse light fuse is no longer sitting in its clip at the coil, you can run a wire from the coil (+) to the relay #30 yourself . . . with an inline fuse stuck in there.

Front turn signals on early bays can be ghostly glowing weirdos if their bulb contacts get wonky. The plastic housing that holds the spring-loaded contacts snaps into place with two skinny cheap looking barbs of plastic. If one side lets go, the bulb no longers presses against the contact.

Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:14 pm

okie dokie! I will try to trace it all.

The housing on the passenger ( aka right side) has no tabs to it, it is like a pressure switch and needs just the right contact.

After I first got her, I noticed I would get the fat flash turn signal, so I looked everywhere. It turned out the battery mount ( beside floor) is gone... so when I accelerated and braked, the battery would slide back and forth, when back, it pressed against brake light. turn assembly causing the fast flashers. I put a pine 4 x 4 in there and not a problem THERE since LOL

I know, from my (now ex 68 bug, sniff, I miss her) that I HAVE to trace it all but darned if I cant figure out that rats nest where once-upon-a-time, there was a nicely laid out plan of wires... TY PO's for your (er-hem) legacy....

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:19 pm

BTW My first VW was when I was 13. I got a 61 ragtop bug from my uncle. My dad, who was factory trained, said if I wanted it, I had to learn to fix it, ALONE ( and yes, he never helped more than yelling from his armchair what to try or to get a bigger hammer). I was the only girl in the 70's in my city who could pull a 40 horse (if need be), alone, pick it up and put it up on the work bench and fix it, re-install it and be on the road in less than 24 hours LOL

POINT? I MISS that 61 wiring harness LOL

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Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:48 pm

CikanVuz wrote:BTW My first VW was when I was 13. I got a 61 ragtop bug from my uncle. My dad, who was factory trained, said if I wanted it, I had to learn to fix it, ALONE ( and yes, he never helped more than yelling from his armchair what to try or to get a bigger hammer). I was the only girl in the 70's in my city who could pull a 40 horse (if need be), alone, pick it up and put it up on the work bench and fix it, re-install it and be on the road in less than 24 hours LOL

POINT? I MISS that 61 wiring harness LOL
Well, you're one-up on me then. I got my first VW illicitly in high school, no license, no registration, no insurance, no parental knowledge, total glorious stupid fun, sold it for a dollar profit at the end of the '77 school year.
Bought a '73 bus two years later. Drove it for 580,000 miles over 30 years, running perfectly right up to the point of impact on August 16, 2009.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:40 pm

Yah, my ragtop and I stuck it out for near ten years, until some looney made an left turn right in front of it. Nearly killed my brother ( he was borrowing her at the time). Killed my ragtop though. Then I fell into the wanting to dress and look like a girl scene, LOL, got an alfa romero GTV and gave up doing my own repairs.

But your roots have a way of find ya, don't they?

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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by SlowLane » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:33 pm

CikanVuz wrote:Oh, I do not have stock reverse lights hooked up on the bus. the wires just are no where to be found... I installed some and put them on a direct wire on/off switch. (They are the funny looking little things on the bumper)
Well, since you've already installed alternate back-up lights, I'll share what I did with my '71 many years ago.

I never did like the shared brake/turn signal thingy (struck me as a dumb-ass shortcut more appropriate to American iron), so I re-purposed the stock backup lights into turn signals, rendering the stock brake/signal lamps as brake-only.

I forget the details, but the conversion required a turn signal switch from a later model bus (I think I used a '72), a pair of orange-coated bulbs and some extra wires run to the back. I seem to recall also rewiring the dash signals to actually indicate which signal was flashing, instead of having them flash in tandem. I mounted a pair of Canadian Tire tractor headlights to the bumper for backup lights (through a relay).

The effect of the new turn signals was dramatic. There was no mistaking my intentions when I signalled a lane change.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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CikanVuz
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by CikanVuz » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:28 am

Hey thanks Slowlane but I am not that brave with wiring just yet... LOL

So, I finally got a relay and sat down and did this and I want to make sure I have it figured out correctly before I actually do the wiring so I am turning to the pros to be sure I do this the right way, so, is my diagram right?

Image

I hope so; lemme know please.

And TY!!

(as I am sitting here, staring at my pic it dawned on me: I need to actually HAVE a in-line fuse to do this, so off to pepboys I go... LOL) :bounce:

Also, I notice everywhere ( now that I am looking( says 85 is ground but I wired up my fog lights with this diagram and they work,, but should I switch the 86 and 85 on it?

Image

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Amskeptic
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Re: Left brake and turn signal issue

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:32 pm

CikanVuz wrote:is my diagram right?

everywhere says 85 is ground should I switch the 86 and 85?
Yes.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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