1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

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WaterDawg
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1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:39 pm

New engine with under 5k on her.
Rebuilt by Adrian at Head Flow Masters
Problem started yesterday and got worse today and is now causing me to get stuck.

Crossing various elevations: Cascades, today Lolo Pass
Problem happens at all elevations

She runs flat out just fine, but as soon as I stop at a light or in a parking lot, she will die.
First couple of times she dies, i could start her back up.
Now when she dies - she does not start right back up. I need to let her sit for a while and I usually have to push the gas pedal down to get her to start and stay running.

I should note, that she has always idled funny. That is either high (1,300- 1,500) or low (850 - 900) :scratch:

I'm in Missoula, MT now awaiting some suggestions.
Larry Jensen
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tristessa
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by tristessa » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:30 pm

Hope I'm not stating the obvious, but .. vacuum leak? Check where the two hoses connect into the side of the "S" boot, they're rather notorious for Not Quite Sealing But Looking Connected...
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Kubelwagen
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by Kubelwagen » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:32 pm

I am but mere apprentice here, but I would start by looking at your temp sensors and generally making sure all the electrical bits are plugged in properly. I have had a connection come loose and cause havoc.

Start there?
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Kubelwagen
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by Kubelwagen » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:34 pm

But the vac leak is a good suggestion too! Nice thing is you can give both a look over at the same time.

Hey, I'm trying to be positive here. Take a deep breath. We have all been there.
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WaterDawg
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:37 pm

tristessa wrote:Hope I'm not stating the obvious, but .. vacuum leak? Check where the two hoses connect into the side of the "S" boot, they're rather notorious for Not Quite Sealing But Looking Connected...
I'm new so nothing is too obvious. I'll be tackling this in the AM with light. If I can't figure it out, I have someone 2 hours away that will help me. Neither of us are mechanics, but two heads and four hands are better =D>

So please keep the suggestions coming in.
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tristessa
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by tristessa » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:11 pm

Drop a line to whc03grady (here)/Mitch Grady (f'book) -- he's in the Missoula area.
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WaterDawg
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:26 pm

tristessa wrote:Drop a line to whc03grady (here)/Mitch Grady (f'book) -- he's in the Missoula area.
Mitch and I have already been talking prior to this issue as he was a planned rest stop. Now its going to be a work stop too, but we are both hoping for ideas and trouble shooting tips
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whc03grady
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by whc03grady » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:35 pm

tristessa wrote:Drop a line to whc03grady (here)/Mitch Grady (f'book) -- he's in the Missoula area.
WaterDawg wrote:I have someone 2 hours away that will help me.
http://youtu.be/Q-Zx1JyJKAQ?t=1m10s
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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WaterDawg
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by WaterDawg » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:33 pm

anyone else want to chime in?
I'm at Mitch's house in Anaconda and we're about to start looking for a vacuum leak. Tips, tricks, anything you want to add will be helpful.

Here is some info on my end.
She started right up this morning and idled for about 15 minutes...then I took off and she died at the first stop down the street and did not want to start.

She ran fine on the highway even climbing up to 6000 feet in elevation. But will not idle.
Engine temp registers at 375 on the highway.

My number is 845-224-8141 if you want to call otherwise posting here is fine and I'll keep checking back
Larry Jensen
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airkooledchris
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by airkooledchris » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:43 pm

Check your timing and confirm where it's set at currently.

My first bus, while on a long roadtrip, suddenly decided it would run only when I was on the gas. It wouldn't idle no matter what.
im not sure how the timing got 'off' while driving, but it did.
1979 California Transporter

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WaterDawg
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by WaterDawg » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:39 pm

OK< we checked all the vacuum lines with carb cleaner and no change.
Timing is good and I also changed the fuel filter. Still having an issue
When we pull the small line off the Decel Valve she holds idle and runs a lot better at idle. (idle increases up to 950 and is smooth.

Ideas?
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whc03grady
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by whc03grady » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:47 pm

When checking for vac leaks with GumOut, how much are we spraying here? I'm reticent to burn down anyone's bus except my own so maybe I had too light a touch, but I didn't notice any change in running and I think I hit all the vac connections.

One intake runner boot was loose enough to turn by hand so we put clamps on it for good measure. It idles near perfectly if you disconnect the little tube from the decel valve. Does this indicate a rich condition? I'm extremely hesitant to mess with the mixture. Oh, hitting the brakes kicks up the idle too, at least for a second.

Anyway, this bus is overdue by at least 1,000 miles for a valve adjustment so I'll be talking Larry through that tomorrow morning. Then we'll look at the points.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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Amskeptic
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:50 pm

whc03grady wrote:When checking for vac leaks with GumOut, how much are we spraying here? I'm reticent to burn down anyone's bus except my own so maybe I had too light a touch, but I didn't notice any change in running and I think I hit all the vac connections.

One intake runner boot was loose enough to turn by hand so we put clamps on it for good measure. It idles near perfectly if you disconnect the little tube from the decel valve. Does this indicate a rich condition? I'm extremely hesitant to mess with the mixture. Oh, hitting the brakes kicks up the idle too, at least for a second.

Anyway, this bus is overdue by at least 1,000 miles for a valve adjustment so I'll be talking Larry through that tomorrow morning. Then we'll look at the points.
Yes, rich due to high elevation, decel valve gave it away.

Be bold! Just NOTE your initial adjustment settings.
For example, with engine off, turn the mixture screw in the AFM clockwise all the way down until it stops. Record how many turns to the prrecise fraction. Now turn it back to where it was.
Since it is rrrich, take another two or three turns counter-clockwise. Test drive.

Now Waterdawg, be CAREFUL with the following FACT . . . .
When you drop below 3,000 feet down on toward sea level, you must be ready to re-richen the mixture. Use the decel small hose as your reference hose.

That now-called Reference Hose also removes the vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator, making it increase fuel pressure. That means you must understand the bias that is introduced when you pull the hose.
The bias is : slightly rich!
You must allow your mixture adjustment to end up "slightly rich" as in a "mild increase in idle" as you take your finger tip off the reference hose. WHEN you put the hose back on the decel valve, the fuel pressure regulator will respond to the vacuum by dropping the fuel pressure, which leans the mixture to "perfect".

Feel free! to turn the black cog wheel teeth inside the AFM cover CLOCKWISE up to six clicks (after you paint an initial setting point!)
to lean it a bit more as necessary if engine is boggy out on the road.

Keep an eye on the CHT gauge, I am glad you have one. Lean is more deadly than rich.
Here is a quicky check anytime.
At a stop, lightly pump the brake pedal quicklyquickly.
If idle drops dramatically - too lean
If idle goes up ridiculously - too rich
If idle drops mildly and recovers when you stop pumping the brake pedal lightly and quicklyquickly - just right

You are HEREBY NOTIFIED that if any drop in power occurs on the road YOU MUST INVESTIGATE IMMEDIATELY, no rationalizations about making it to the next exit.

I'll check in tomorrow, November 14th around 8:00PM . . .
ColinLexusOldManOnTheRoadToMiami
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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WaterDawg
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by WaterDawg » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:59 pm

Thanks Colin! Will keep you posted.
Larry Jensen
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whc03grady
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Re: 1978 Bus, 2.0 FI, Solid Lifters - Dies at Idle

Post by whc03grady » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:15 pm

Man, those valves were so all over the place that I'm pretty convinced that was the trouble all by itself. WaterDawg dialed them all in--his first time--and the bus seems to be running pretty well. I'll let him fill y'all in though, it's his story after all.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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