New ignition switch in 72 bay - befuddled

[grandfatherjim]

I replaced both the mechanical and electrical parts of the ignition switch, which was quite the job - steering wheel off, steering column out - and it is NOT like they tell you in the manual.
The new switch is a little different; I guess it fits across a broad range of years and includes Beetles. On the original switch, as you rotate the key toward start it also goes in, like a corkscrew, but the new one doesn't. This may or may not be relevant.
With the old switch I did have the hot start issue, so I put the relay near the starter and have not been let down since. Figured, 40 year old contacts in the ignition switch, good reason.
Also, while chasing other things, I noticed a small voltage drop at the coil + terminal. It was I think about 12.5 vs 13.8 at the battery. Since I was seeing about 12.5, I took it that the wiring was not acting as a ballast resistor as I would then see quite a lower voltage at the coil terminal, so I attributed this to poor contacts in the ignition switch as well and mounted a relay near the coil, and now just turn on the relay with the ignition switch.
On the mechanical side, to operate the old switch you had to wiggle the key just so to get it to rotate, and this was becoming progressively more tricky. Then, it got to where you could turn off the key and the engine would keep running. If you tried it a few times though, it would work once in a while. Finally, you could not only turn it off but remove the key and the engine would still be running....time to deal with it.
OK so I went through all the hassle and replaced it, great. There is an extra wire (grey) on the new switch - it receives power only when the car is turned OFF. Maybe for a car alarm?? I just didn't use it. Other than that the rest are the same: red (incoming, always live), red/black (energizes starter motor), black (live when key is turned on including when key is turned to start), black/yellow (lights and wipers, live when key is turned on but not when turned to start), brown (connected to ground only when the key is in, to operate the buzzer).

With all that background, finally, here is the problem: with the new switch, when I turn the key to off, the generator light comes on, and the car keeps running. At that point there is 3.6v on the black wire. The emerg. flashers will operate but the indicator lights are dim. When I pull the key out, the car shuts off. When the key is put back in, but the car is not running, the black wire is at 0v.

I have stared and stared at the wiring diagram and am going around in circles. I believe I have two problems at once but this conviction may be throwing me off: 1. Something is supplying that coil relay with just 3.6v which is enough to keep it latched on, but what? 2. The only difference between key OFF and key OUT should be the grounding of the brown wire, which isn't even connected and only operates the door buzzer anyway, so why does something change when I pull the key out?

Scratching my head in the great white north,
Jim

[Amskeptic]

I replaced both the mechanical and electrical parts of the ignition switch, which was quite the job - steering wheel off, steering column out - and it is NOT like they tell you in the manual.
The new switch is a little different; I guess it fits across a broad range of years and includes Beetles. On the original switch, as you rotate the key toward start it also goes in, like a corkscrew, but the new one doesn't. This may or may not be relevant.
With the old switch I did have the hot start issue, so I put the relay near the starter and have not been let down since. Figured, 40 year old contacts in the ignition switch, good reason.
Also, while chasing other things, I noticed a small voltage drop at the coil + terminal. It was I think about 12.5 vs 13.8 at the battery. Since I was seeing about 12.5, I took it that the wiring was not acting as a ballast resistor as I would then see quite a lower voltage at the coil terminal, so I attributed this to poor contacts in the ignition switch as well and mounted a relay near the coil, and now just turn on the relay with the ignition switch.
On the mechanical side, to operate the old switch you had to wiggle the key just so to get it to rotate, and this was becoming progressively more tricky. Then, it got to where you could turn off the key and the engine would keep running. If you tried it a few times though, it would work once in a while. Finally, you could not only turn it off but remove the key and the engine would still be running....time to deal with it.
OK so I went through all the hassle and replaced it, great. There is an extra wire (grey) on the new switch - it receives power only when the car is turned OFF. Maybe for a car alarm?? I just didn't use it. Other than that the rest are the same: red (incoming, always live), red/black (energizes starter motor), black (live when key is turned on including when key is turned to start), black/yellow (lights and wipers, live when key is turned on but not when turned to start), brown (connected to ground only when the key is in, to operate the buzzer).

With all that background, finally, here is the problem: with the new switch, when I turn the key to off, the generator light comes on, and the car keeps running. At that point there is 3.6v on the black wire. The emerg. flashers will operate but the indicator lights are dim. When I pull the key out, the car shuts off. When the key is put back in, but the car is not running, the black wire is at 0v.

I have stared and stared at the wiring diagram and am going around in circles. I believe I have two problems at once but this conviction may be throwing me off: 1. Something is supplying that coil relay with just 3.6v which is enough to keep it latched on, but what? 2. The only difference between key OFF and key OUT should be the grounding of the brown wire, which isn't even connected and only operates the door buzzer anyway, so why does something change when I pull the key out?

Scratching my head in the great white north,
Jim

Disconnect the brown and try again.
You have lost the corkscrew that broke the contact for the door buzzer, right? Let's try no grounding.
Colin

[grandfatherjim]

Yes, I have lost the corkscrew. I did try disconnecting the brown - no change - and have left it disconnected for the time being. I meant to include that in the text.

[Amskeptic]

Yes, I have lost the corkscrew. I did try disconnecting the brown - no change - and have left it disconnected for the time being. I meant to include that in the text.

You then may need to go elsewhere in the system. Make sure all ignition switch terminals are open circuit at off position. Make sure you have continuity only at 30 to 15 in on position. Make sure that you have 30 to 15 and 50 at start position only. Keep grey and brown out of the picture for now, and make sure that no terminals are inadvertently grounding in housing. Check that X is correctly wired to the light switch X terminal to fire up headlamps only with ignition on. You appear to be getting a backfeed. Check hazard switch for any signs of having fallen apart at the cheap tabs that secure the phenolic with all the terminals sticking out. Check terminal blocks for correct wire colors in and out at each socket.

I know that this just happened with a switch replacement, but you know that there was a lot of monkeying around to get the switch free, so double check wiring carefully. I had no real problems fixing the switch on the Road Warrior without removing steering column. I removed four phillips screws between the housing and the bracket, removed the steering wheel, and did a little sideways rotate of the housing to access the mess from below.
Colin