This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

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WaterDawg
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This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:03 pm

Hi All,

As some of you know, 2015 was a really horrible year for me. It started March 2nd when I was told, my little pup Lexie, had cancer and 3 months to live. We had spent 11 years leading an amazing life and she was in perfect health before this news. Just a couple of months before, her perfect teeth had been cleaned and the doctor expected her to be one of those luck ones that lived well into 18.

I sold everything I had, began raising money and we fought that cancer back with chemo, radiation and multiple operations. We beat 3 months and then 6 months. We were closing in on 12 months when treatment failed or rather, her body was unable to handle it anymore and that was the opportunity the cancer looked for. At just over 10 months, I lost my little girl on December 24th, 2015
This is her story, if you'd like to read more. http://lifewithlarry.com/youre-really-g ... -to-lexie/

Well, I'm putting my life back together now and one thing I'd like to do is buy another VW. I'm not sure if I'd like a Vanagon (Syncro to be exact) or another Bus. Mine is somewhere in Virginia I believe. My plan is to take the bus and travel around doing some handyman stuff here and there as I write my first novel and continuing writing my stories from the road.

This bus popped up on my RADAR and I'd love input. It's a 78 Westy Deluxe Champagne Edition firm at $28k with a cool story and completely traceable history.
It's got all the original paperwork and a log book from day one. It is not in mint condition though, but it is mint for being unrestored.

The back story on this bus is that it was bought just down the road from where it's resided all its life. The woman, Mary Collins, and her husband bought it to take a trip back to her home town that she had not seen since being a kid. She wrote and published a book about the trip, though I can't find it on-line, there is a copy that comes with the bus. It also has the original window sticker, marketing material, ice trays (still sealed), yellow bucket, child's cot, screens and a drive-a-way tent from High Peak Tramp

From what I have been told, it has some issues.
Small dent int he chrome bumper from backing into a garbage dumpster =D>
Floor mats were left on the carpet in the back and left black marks in it :angryfire:
a number of paint chips from actual use :thumbleft:
The headliner is all there, but there are parts falling down and one part has a tear :crybaby:
A new muffler, cat and brakes were installed back in the 90's before it was put in storage :pale:
Windshield was replaced (why???) :scratch:
There is no radio antenna (were they not installed at the dealer before delivery?
Could this be a sign that something happened to the front) :^o

I just don't know if that is a good thing and we know you either buy them restored or you restore them. So my question is, of course - Price, but also does this belong in a showroom somewhere and not out on the open road being used daily as I plan on. Am I better off finding a fully restored Bus? Restoring a bus myself? or buying one with a beautiful piece of history to it? I will mention this as an important piece of info. One of the reason I am looking to invest in another bus or syncro is to protect my money. I don't have a 401k, IRA or some kind of retirement or savings plan. The cash I have is all I have. If I allow it to depreciate, I won't have anything in the future. So investing my money into something that will both serve me and retain its value - like my last bus - is very important to me.

Thank's in advance for the input.
(By the way, looking at the pictures and having seen fully restored buses go for $30k, I would have thought this was more around a $20k bus)

Link to ad: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1851763
Link to additional pics: http://s1041.photobucket.com/user/drjul ... /Chocoflan
Larry Jensen
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by Jivermo » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Good to have you back, Larry. I like the bus, but that price smacks of someone trying to make a killing on a flip. Maybe he'll find a wealthy person who just must have a Westy, but I'm thinking he's about 6,000 too high for that bus.

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WaterDawg
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:26 pm

no other input ? :(
Ya all must be in winter storage mode
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by asiab3 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:11 am

I think part of that price is the Champagne Edition rarity. The brown interior designs (up front, in the dash) are extremely hard to find, and I think the buyer of this bus will be paying exorbitantly for it. If you do not have your heart set on the brown, I would wait out for another bus. If you want that bus, I think you should buy that bus. Perhaps you could wait a bit and see if Colin really is going to sell his Naranja Westy. Lower miles, a known history, and you KNOW what you're getting, because it's all documented here.

My thoughts, take them with a heap of salt,
Robbie
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:36 am

asiab3 wrote:I think part of that price is the Champagne Edition rarity. The brown interior designs (up front, in the dash) are extremely hard to find, and I think the buyer of this bus will be paying exorbitantly for it. If you do not have your heart set on the brown, I would wait out for another bus. If you want that bus, I think you should buy that bus. Perhaps you could wait a bit and see if Colin really is going to sell his Naranja Westy. Lower miles, a known history, and you KNOW what you're getting, because it's all documented here.

My thoughts, take them with a heap of salt,
Robbie
Thanks Robbie.

I've been watching Naranja, but I've always liked the Deluxe model - yet another premium I have to pay for :thumbleft:
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by wcfvw69 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:54 am

This bus you linked has many wonderful things going for it. Low mileage, rust free, un-molested and a documented history. While you can search for a "restored" bus, most often, you won't know it's history, what's under the shiny paint, what quality of parts where used and how competent the people where who did the work. Let's say you bought a nice solid bus as a foundation for $5-7k and had it restored. In most cases, you'd spend more money than the asking price of this bus to bring it to the level of quality of this bus. Not to mention the time to complete all the work, chasing down parts it's missing, dealing with the crappy repo parts, etc. I've done ground up restorations on bugs. I'd take an original, un-molested VW over a restored one any day of the week.

These buses are only original once and the survivors (like this bus) rightfully demand a higher premium. This bus has been listed since October of last year. In all likelihood, the seller would come down on his price to move it. Even at $28k, I don't think the price is out of line. I was searching through the buses for sale on The Samba last night. I hadn't done that in a couple of years. I was startled at how the prices have climbed. I also noted some of the original, premium buses in this price range. My thoughts last night where I didn't think the pricing was out of line at all.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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WaterDawg
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:29 am

wcfvw69 wrote: This bus has been listed since October of last year. In all likelihood, the seller would come down on his price to move it. Even at $28k, I don't think the price is out of line. I was searching through the buses for sale on The Samba last night. I hadn't done that in a couple of years. I was started at how the prices have climbed. I also noted some of the original, premium buses in this price range. My thoughts last night where I didn't think the pricing was out of line at all.

I've talked to him. He indicated he is not willing to budge. I might continue trying.

I guess my real question is this.

Does this bus belong in a Museum or with me on the road, getting used daily as my home and work space?
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by Jivermo » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:51 am

There are buses in museums aplenty. Part of the allure of our interest is the ability to actually use our buses, and drive them anywhere we care to. We make people very happy, I believe, by just showing up in their space...much more so than any museum can hope to accomplish. We are all in a rare time of living history and present day reality. When folks like you and me, Larry, stop driving our buses on the road, there is no more need for Colin's chosen life's work, nor this website. It will be a sad day when that time arrives, but the people here actively keep it at bay-no pun intended. Putting that bus in a museum would be an admittance that the time of the bay window bus is over and done. I, for one, am not willing to concede that just yet. Colin told me that this year's Itinerary demand is the biggest one yet, so that should tell you something about the health of our labor of love.
I did not realize that this bus has been for sale since October...5 months. The message is clear: the market demand for the product is not strong enough to support that kind of price. An astute seller would, after 60-90 days, discern that fact, and lower the price. Inflexibility to negotiate down from 28,000 after 5 months represents only one thing to me-greed is a motivating factor. Something that we have a surplus of in today's marketplace and society. Don't cave, Larry.

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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:55 am

Jivermo wrote:
I did not realize that this bus has been for sale since October...5 months. The message is clear: the market demand for the product is not strong enough to support that kind of price. An astute seller would, after 60-90 days, discern that fact, and lower the price. Inflexibility to negotiate down from 28,000 after 5 months represents only one thing to me-greed is a motivating factor. Something that we have a surplus of in today's marketplace and society. Don't cave, Larry.

Thanks. I'm in no rush, I do like the history and documentation. It would be fun to use it and show it. She would be a big hit at shows, but I too think greed is the driving factor in the price.

Your input is well received
Larry Jensen
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by wcfvw69 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:06 am

I'd have no problem driving that bus and fully agree with Jivermo's reply. These buses are meant to be enjoyed and driven. As Jivermo stated, people love to see our buses out and about. The popularity of them appears to only grow more and more. The price increases over the past few years demonstrate that exact thing. Living in Phoenix, I've been really blown away with all the bay windows out and about that I'd never seen before these past couple of months.

It's your decision on whether to buy that bus or not. Personally, I wouldn't let it slip away for a few thousand dollars. The prices are only going to continue to increase as demand drives it. You look at the collector car world right now. EVERYONE is hunting for un-restored, original, correct and rust free cars. There are so many parts on that bus that are hard to find in good condition, not to mention all the interior, cabinets and accessories are in place and come with the bus. I've been shocked at how quickly the dollars have added up trying to track down all the missing pieces for my bus has cost. It takes time and then you have to in most cases, restore the part you find.

I don't think that bus is over priced at all. Again, to buy a well used bus and put it back to that condition would exceed this asking price. You never know, if you showed up with $3k lower than his asking price in cash, he may take it.

Just my 2 cents.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by Westy78 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:28 am

Keep in mind that Busses for sale on The Samba often have exaggerated prices. It's a nice bus but I think that price is stretched a bit. Of course I live in an area rich with them.
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by whc03grady » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:10 pm

WaterDawg wrote:One of the reason I am looking to invest in another bus or syncro is to protect my money. I don't have a 401k, IRA or some kind of retirement or savings plan. The cash I have is all I have. If I allow it to depreciate, I won't have anything in the future. So investing my money into something that will both serve me and retain its value - like my last bus - is very important to me.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way for a classic/collectible car to retain its value as an investment over many years is for it to never see a road again. If you plan on driving it, forget it as an investment. Depreciation via regular wear-and-tear, mileage, and constant exposure to severe risk (re: idiot drivers) will far outstrip any gains. The $24,500 NADA lists a gem-quality '78 Westy for represents a $6,640 loss in value, adjusted for inflation, over its $8,570 retail price.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
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WaterDawg
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:33 pm

whc03grady wrote:
WaterDawg wrote:One of the reason I am looking to invest in another bus or syncro is to protect my money. I don't have a 401k, IRA or some kind of retirement or savings plan. The cash I have is all I have. If I allow it to depreciate, I won't have anything in the future. So investing my money into something that will both serve me and retain its value - like my last bus - is very important to me.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way for a classic/collectible car to retain its value as an investment over many years is for it to never see a road again. If you plan on driving it, forget it as an investment. Depreciation via regular wear-and-tear, mileage, and constant exposure to severe risk (re: idiot drivers) will far outstrip any gains. The $24,500 NADA lists a gem-quality '78 Westy for represents a $6,640 loss in value, adjusted for inflation, over its $8,570 retail price.

By Investment I mean that unlike a new or gently used car/truck, the bus does not depreciate if maintained properly.
Sandy, my last bus, which you got to know :salute: was driven over 10k miles, used considerably and when I sold it, I got back every penny I had put in it. So even with use, a properly maintained bus will not depreciate.

I do think that one of the premiums on this bus is because it is a much rarer Champagne version. I am just not sure I want something this premium, yet. I'm still awaiting additional pics of the damage parts before I decide.

Appreciating the input though and keep your eyes peeled if you happen across anything fantastic. I like the Deluxe Westies.
Larry Jensen
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:59 am

That's a good price for a unmolested Westy and those are being snapped up and shipped to Germany/Netherlands and sold there for 30k Euro's easy.
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Re: This or That...time to re-enter the VW World

Post by WaterDawg » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:52 am

Here is another that I was looking at. This seller just got back to me with more pictures

http://boise.craigslist.org/cto/5452252829.html

Additional pics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... =drive_web
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